Sex, all right!

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#1 by stei
2012-05-27 at 00:38
< report >It was only me or there were a lot of useless sex scenes?
#2 by failures
2012-05-27 at 00:40
< report >Sex sells sadly.
#3 by space-ranger
2012-05-27 at 00:42
< report >That depends on how you define useless. They fit very well into the story and they even affect the story. This is not a title I would think of when hearing "useless sex", though I could start to mention a few titles.
#4 by metaler
2012-05-27 at 01:01
< report >Well this isn't a nukige, and I don't think some plot points would work without some good ol' fuckin'.
#5 by horseband
2012-05-27 at 01:40
< report >From what I remember I think they were all pretty relevant story/character wise. I guess one could say that Mizuki's route had too many, but I personally thought the high number of scenes was on purpose to represent Mizuki's hedonistic nature stemming from her problem of living without worrying about the consequences. If there was only 2~ scenes I would've felt it didn't really match her personality and problem.

Honestly this is one of the few VNs where I thought the h-scenes were completely relevant and well constructed. Each girl's h-scene was connected to her problem in some way or another.
#6 by whateveryouwant
2012-05-27 at 04:20
< report >I completely agree with the OP to the point where the sex scenes actually ruined the VN for me. Aeka's route had the lowest amount of H scenes, but still there were quite a lot and nearly all of them (save for about one) were really unecessary. Mizuki's route had porn all over the place and was mostly the reason I despised that arc of the game.

There was way too much sex here, but as failures pointed out, sex sells.
#7 by overmage
2012-05-27 at 05:05
< report >Compared to many other VNs, this one's sex scenes weren't that useless I mean look at Kamidori
#8 by yimw
2012-05-27 at 05:07
< report >I remember back when I played it I didn't use all of the scenes because I wanted to get back to the story so yeah I'd say a lot of them were useless.

I don't consider that a major flaw though since it's an eroge and it's supposed to have sex. What I find interesting is how some people who normally complain about ero in eroge choose YMK of all games as an example of one that integrates the sex into the story well. I think YMK is at best average in how it balances the scenario and sex.
#9 by horseband
2012-05-27 at 05:16
< report >It's possible I'm just looking back with rose tinted glasses but if I remember right the scenes were all connected to the story and the psychological issues surrounding the characters.

-Mizuki - Like I said before, she does whatever the hell she wants whenever the hell she wants. Sex, drugs, "kidnapping" her boyfriend, etc. If she had only 2 sex scenes it would've been detrimental to her character, especially when they are trying to portray her the way they were. I always just assumed the reason she had like double the h-scenes was because it tied in perfectly with her problem. It also fits perfectly in line with her getting pregnant at the end. Them having sex once and her getting pregnant would've felt forced and less believable.

Nekeko - Her scenes were showing the madness caused by her drug abuse and her willingness to do whatever it takes to get to the "Fairy world."

Aeka - Using her body to secure the protag as her boyfriend and escape her torment at school.

I'm the kind of person that looks for deeper meaning and connections when reading stories. I can see how the scenes would be too much if you thought they were just put there to make the game 18+ and nothing more. I guess it depends on the individual and what they interpreted from the story.

On a side note, I normally skip through the majority of h-scenes in VNs. For whatever reason I really enjoyed the ones in YMK. YMK h-scenes seems to be pretty hit or miss.Last modified on 2012-05-27 at 05:30
#10 by thelasling
2012-05-27 at 10:50
< report >^ spot on horseband. How did I miss a YMK thread :PLast modified on 2012-05-27 at 10:50
#11 by surferdude
2012-05-27 at 10:53
< report >>reading 18+ VNs
>complaining about the 18+ parts
Seriously, some people on this site act like 10 year-olds.
#12 by metaler
2012-05-27 at 11:03
< report >Well some people just want to enjoy a good story.
#13 by whateveryouwant
2012-05-27 at 11:20
< report >@11

There isn't anything wrong with 18+ sections within games, I just felt that in this particular VN it ruined the story and character development at times. There is a difference between using sex scenes and over using them, and (in my opinion) this VN fell in the latter category.Last modified on 2012-05-27 at 11:21
#14 by ipohmari
2012-05-27 at 20:58
< report >Another thread complaining YMK's "insane" and "overused" amount of h-scenes.

Face-palms are no longer enough. Only banging my head to the wall repeatedly will suffice.Last modified on 2012-05-27 at 22:54
#15 by saxman-faust
2012-05-27 at 21:06
< report >Maybe I missed something at some point while reading this VN, but the sex scenes never seemed detrimental to me. None of them seemed either forced or uncharacteristic (as a matter of fact, in the cases of Mizuki & Nekoko, it seemed rather necessary. One is addicted to pleasure, the other is on hallucinogenics, for crying out loud.) More confusing to me is this notion that sex is the anti-plot..... the other (as in, not sex) part about a 18+ rating and target audience is that it expects reading comprehension and reasoning capacities beyond that of a sheltered teenager. This notion that "sex interferes with story" is hypocrisy. Rather, without the sex this story would have no impetus. The physical attraction between the protagonist and the various heroines is the sticking point that cements the plot so well. It's what makes the protagonist so identifiable; a perfectly altruistic protagonist alienates readers. They would follow a mindset most people cannot understand, whereas a protagonist who has both physical and emotional ties which are reinforced frequently throughout the story is one who easily identifiable.

In short, what I am trying to state is that declarations that sex interferes with the plot simply reflect the immaturity of the reader. If you are going to read a VN, or indeed attempt to appreciate any medium who's target is a post-teen audience, you must also be prepared to face it with post-teen values.
#16 by surferdude
2012-05-27 at 21:15
< report >^ Very well said.
#17 by horseband
2012-05-27 at 22:25
< report >I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt that way then. I was worried I'd get flamed by everyone for my views on YMK sex scenes.

YMK just seems to be leagues above the average VN when it comes to having sex scenes that actually have a reason to be there.
#18 by ipohmari
2012-05-27 at 22:56
< report >@17
Why did you think you were in the minority? From what I've seen thus far, most on VNDB share the same opinions. Or they're just the most vocal.

Please someone give this man a medal.Last modified on 2012-05-27 at 22:57
#19 by space-ranger
2012-05-27 at 23:10
< report >@15 that is the most awesome post I have ever seen from anybody posting their first post.

In short, what I am trying to state is that declarations that sex interferes with the plot simply reflect the immaturity of the reader
This pretty much sums up lots of disagreements regarding a whole lot of VNs.
#20 by loctar87
2012-05-28 at 01:12
< report >@15 You have a point, but you're overstating it. Disliking having lots of random sex scenes isn't a sign of immaturity. It's a sign that you've read too many visual novels, and random sex scenes don't affect you emotionally anymore, so they're just a hindrance unless you're in the mood for masturbation. In the vast majority of cases sex scenes have no bearing on the plot whatsoever, and how much we identify with the protagonist is highly unlike to hinge on whether or not he has sex with the girl he loves.
#21 by saxman-faust
2012-05-28 at 01:48
< report >Hm. I wasn't saying disliking the sex scenes was immature. I was saying that the blanket statement that it "interferes with the plot" was immature. I feel that, while not in all VN's certainly, in YMK the sex scenes were absolutely necessary. You could say that I was trying to point out that the sex is a plot point in itself. In the case of all three heroines, the sex is a large part of what bonds them to the protagonist at the beginning of their relationship, with the emotional attachments developing from what originates as purely physical relationships. The immaturity I was pointing out was the inability of some readers to intellectually separate "Sex, the act" from "Sex, the motivator".

I do agree with you, however, that repeated exposure to some VN's (particularly nukige) tends to desensitize readers to the sexual act, making it hard to distinguish between "porn with a plot", where the emphasis is on masturbatory gratification, and a "story with sex", where the emphasis is on the development of the story.
#22 by loctar87
2012-05-28 at 02:51
< report >@21 Look, you have to admit that if the reader didn't have a sex drive, sex scenes would be horribly pointless. They have no relevance to the plot, they're extremely repetitive, predictable, and quite boring. YMK might be an exception where some sex scenes were relevant, but even so it had too many of them. You could satisfy the "Sex, the motivator" that your talking about with a black screen and a short description of what happened. They don't put those scenes in there to enhance the plot. They put them there as masturbation aids.
#23 by metaler
2012-05-28 at 03:00
< report >^ Well, let's be frank: sex is repetitive, be it in an eroge or real life. We all know what the outcome will be, yes?
#24 by vovick
2012-05-28 at 03:09
< report >I also want to chime in and say that in my opinion visual novels where sex and the rest of the plot intertwine organically are very rare. YMK is not among them.
#25 by horseband
2012-05-28 at 03:23
< report >@22
I think you are now doing exactly what you said saxman did, overstating it. To say that every 18+ novel only has sex scenes for masturbation aid is a bit ridiculous, and so is saying that sex scenes are never put in there to enhance the plot. Most of the time? Sure. All of the time? No way.

Everything else is well within your right to objectively say because it's your opinion, so that's cool with me :p.