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#1 by kukipandora
2012-09-07 at 00:09
< report >-Last modified on 2014-03-10 at 04:39
#2 by overmage
2012-09-07 at 00:53
< report >I think the question here to ask is, what is the difference between a yuri/shouji-ai game targeted at straight men, and one targeted at women?

Is it writing style? Is it art style? The problem is that the dividing line is not very obvious, especially because contrary to popular opinion, not all yuri games 'targeted at straight men' are nukiges.

If they're a little more feminist, would they be targeted at women? Or are they targeted at women because the creators say so?

I question the need for such a tag.
#3 by kukipandora
2012-09-07 at 01:51
< report >-Last modified on 2014-03-10 at 04:39
#4 by darkmac
2012-09-07 at 03:42
< report >What yuri otome games are there?
#5 by kukipandora
2012-09-07 at 04:31
< report >-Last modified on 2014-03-10 at 04:40
#6 by overmage
2012-09-07 at 06:14
< report >
contrary to popular opinion, not all yuri games 'targeted at straight men' are nukiges.

You seem to have missed this part out in your raging generalizations

For anime examples, compare Aoi Hana and Maria-Sama ga Miteru (aimed at women) to Candy Boy, Simoun or Kannazuki no Miko (aimed at men).

Sure, take the most extreme examples to put your points across, ignoring the fact that a spectrum exists in between

The main thing as I see it is that this 'yuri otome' movement hasn't gathered near enough momentum to warrant its own name like bara has from yaoi. There's a lot of gender-neutral yuri and a lot of non-nukige yuri are essentially not targeted explicitly at males or females. Don't just take the extreme examples.

It hasn't distinguished itself anywhere near the extent of yaoi vs bara; dislike what I say but you know it's the truth. Until the situation changes I don't think this tag is necessary. If Japan itself can't see it fit to split the genre there must be a good reason for it (read: people don't see the need for a split, so there are no commercial pressures to do so)

There are a few being worked on in the OELVN community at the moment,

I know others are going to get to this so let me start the ball rolling by saying 'automatically terribad'Last modified on 2012-09-07 at 06:33
#7 by kukipandora
2012-09-07 at 07:16
< report >-Last modified on 2014-03-10 at 04:40
#8 by redpanther
2012-09-07 at 13:55
< report >
In any case, the genre seems to have gained more popularity only very recently, which is why there are so few.
Slowly but surely.
So happy to be alive.
#9 by mangoseller
2012-09-07 at 17:39
< report >I'm convinced, just add the tagLast modified on 2012-09-07 at 17:40
#10 by PabloC
2012-09-07 at 21:23
< report >@#3 Anime examples:
- Aoi Hana is just a realistic shoujo-ai anime, how is it aimed at woman?
- MariMite has only minimal shoujo-ai undertones, it's primarily just slice-of-life.
- Simoun is focused on character's interactions and relationships, it's not "action packed", focused on sex or moe. Sci-fi universe doesn't make it automatically aimed at men.
- What makes Strawberry Panic gender neutral? Exaggerated proportions, super moe situations and sex? According to your criteria, Aoi Hana and even Simoun are much less gender specific than that. :P

The only example that is indeed aimed at girls is MariMite, as it's pretty much a normal shoujo anime. The rest is either neutral or aimed at men (SP, KnM and CB). Actually, I can't think of any anime that treated lesbian relationships seriously (even Aoi Hana was a somewhat idealized girls-love story, nothing like Moonlight Flowers manga for example).

Ahem, ok now back to the topic.
Tagging yuri VNs aimed at female audience as Otome Games is completely wrong (description clearly says about the relationship with MALE characters). Hence "Yuri Otome Game" tag makes no sense and is actually a contradiction. A different name would be necessary, maybe mentioned earlier "Onnadoushi"?
Another problem is the description. "Focused on developing a relationship" is way too vague and doesn't describe the genre correctly. Every non-nukige yuri VN is more or less focused on relationships after all. The most important thing about "josei Yuri" is dealing with lesbian relationships seriously. Realistic portrayal of homosexual romance, as opposed to unrealistic, often idealized girls-love in typical Yuri, should be the main focus of the new tag, otherwise it will be redundant. But now an important question - does a VN like that exist?

v10702 looks awesome and I'm definitely going to read it, but is it really a serious, "josei Yuri" title? It looks exactly like an Otome Game, only with girls instead of bishies, and that isn't really that different than every other non-nukige Yuri title... Just being focused on relationships is not enough for a new tag (excluding nukige does the trick just fine).

Well, whatever. I love all Yuri, no matter what is it's target audience. ^^

Oh, and
'automatically terribad'
+1 :PLast modified on 2012-09-07 at 21:28
#11 by usagi
2012-09-07 at 22:19
< report >
But now an important question - does a VN like that exist?

v10702 looks awesome and I'm definitely going to read it, but is it really a serious, "josei Yuri" title? It looks exactly like an Otome Game, only with girls instead of bishies, and that isn't really that different than every other non-nukige Yuri title... Just being focused on relationships is not enough for a new tag (excluding nukige does the trick just fine).

Well, whatever. I love all Yuri, no matter what is it's target audience. ^^
what about v8508?
#12 by kukipandora
2012-09-07 at 22:46
< report >-Last modified on 2014-03-10 at 04:41
#13 by PabloC
2012-09-08 at 00:06
< report >
what about v8508?
That's Liar-Soft, it can be everything, there's no way to tell without reading. But since it's an all-girls school with ghosts (a rather typical yuri setting), it doesn't seem like a story about realistic lesbian relationships.

In Yaoi case the target audience is obvious: bishies = women, bara = homosexual men, traps = heterosexual men. In Yuri it's not that clear. The only thing that stands out are lesbian relationships taken seriously. Otherwise they do have a different feel than Yuri targeted at men, but it's hard to make a clear tag for something vague like that. Art style and character designs are generally more shoujo-ish in otome Yuri, but that difference isn't as definite as in Yaoi (look at that black haired girl - Mint - from v10702, you can put her in SonoHana any time and she won't stand out that much).

Which nukige Yuri VNs are otome, and which non-nukige Yuri VNs are not otome? I can think of Hanahira maybe, and that's it. Well, there's a ton of untranslated VNs out there that I didn't read yet, so there may be more examples. (And there are probably some OELVNs, but I couldn't care less about them. :P) Maybe we can just consider all nukiges as targeted specifically at male audience, and all non-nukiges as gender neutral (as that's how they seem to me, they are less gender specific than normal otome games)?

For me, the difference between "otome" Yuri and other non-nukige Yuri isn't definite enough to make a tag for it. Can you make a good, non-vague description for it? Making a tag for VNs with a serious, realistic lesbian relationships may be a good idea (as such stories stand out even among other Yuri titles targeted at females - compare Moonlight Flowers and Girl Friends mangas for example). But I don't know a single VN that presents Yuri relationships in such a way, and I'm not sure if that can't be handled with g82 + g455 combo anyway.

But well, as I said, I love all Yuri, so maybe I just don't see a difference because of that. :PLast modified on 2012-09-08 at 00:09
#14 by kukipandora
2012-09-10 at 02:11
< report >-Last modified on 2014-03-10 at 04:42

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