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#3101 by machan12
2023-03-08 at 17:19
< report >Mrkew u28602 you're a pro, I'll wait for it to be approved, thank you!Last modified on 2023-03-08 at 17:19
#3102 by Ninius
2023-03-09 at 11:14
< report >Why is Subject of (Sexual) > Heart Shaped Cutout in Subject of (Sexual) and not in Clothing? When I saw this on a character I thought at first glance that it meant a literal heartshaped cutout of skin LOL
#3103 by kei-tr
2023-03-20 at 14:19
< report >Role > Girlfriend/Role > Boyfriend traits should contain info about how "at the start of the game this character is already in a relationship with some other character as their girlfriend(s)/boyfriend(s)" and "this trait should not be used if a character becomes another character's girlfriend/boyfriend over the course of the story" like their tag counterparts Protagonist's Girlfriend as a Heroine/Protagonist's Boyfriend as a Hero (I know they are not precisely tag counterparts of those traits but that's beside the point). Otherwise, those traits could apply to almost every single main character, which defeats the purpose and it's completely meaningless.
#3104 by beliar
2023-03-20 at 15:44
< report >First of all, Girlfriend/Boyfriend traits are not counterparts to the tags you have mentioned. There isn't a correlation between them. The traits' intended use is if a character becomes a boyfriend/girlfriend of another character at any point in the story.

Secondly, just like the familial relations (sister, mother, etc.), girlfriend/boyfriend are not protagonist-centric traits. That means the traits apply if the character is a girlfriend/boyfriend of any character in the story. And yes, that makes them pretty much useless, but that applies to all relation traits, while we are waiting for the long-promised Yorhel overhaul wherein we will be able to link relation traits to other characters, thus showing who's sister is this character, or who's boyfriend is this one.
#3105 by chipp12
2023-03-20 at 16:10
< report >Sorry if that was already discussed but I wanted to touch on this topic for a while. It seems like the search doesn't work with trait exclusion.

For example if I try to search for Reverse NTR + Discreet Sex (and include both tag and trait to be sure to get all the results in case a trait was used without tagging) I get this page:
Now if I want to get the rest of results without any Discreet Sex at all I exclude both but still get novels with characters with Discreet Sex trait (in other words only the tag is being excluded).
Is it possible that this problem still wasn't fixed or am I doing something wrong?Last modified on 2023-03-20 at 16:10
#3106 by kei-tr
2023-03-20 at 17:24
< report >@3104

There are two major differences between girlfriend/boyfriend traits and other relations like sister and mother you gave an example:

1) Most of the time you become a girlfriend/boyfriend with someone over the course of the story, contrary to you already have a sister or mother at the start of a story. So it's natural to add sister or mother traits to a character from the get-go unlike girlfriend/boyfriend traits.

2) Most of the time characters only have a single mother, so it's not like you can add the mother trait to all heroines contrary to the girlfriend trait.

Think about it. If you can honestly say they are indeed created with the intention of adding them to almost every single heroine and hero, then it's weird but ok. But I somehow doubt it's the case; I believe it's just an oversight.Last modified on 2023-03-20 at 17:44
#3107 by beliar
2023-03-20 at 20:25
< report >These traits are 12 years old. Of course traits were created without much thinking back in the day. If such a trait would be proposed today, it wouldn't be approved.

Also you are not correct about the familial relations. For example, the mother trait applies to the mother of an established character at the start of the game, but also if the character gives birth during the story and becomes a mother. Moreover, if two characters with children marry during the course of the story, the children do incur the brother/sister traits. So, you can become a <insert a family relation> during the story, just like you can become a girlfriend.

Admittedly, it's a rarer situation than a very common "girlfriend" trait, but it still happens occasionally. It's not an oversight, but rather a severe limitation on the early trait system, and it can be fixed if certain traits could be linked to characters. Sadly, this feature has been in hibernation for ages, and changing the description of existing established traits isn't gonna fix this.
#3108 by Mrkew
2023-03-20 at 21:32
< report >#3103 That's why it's useful to use at least minor spoiler for when it happens outside of prologue, like I said on last page.
#3109 by SomeDude
2023-03-20 at 22:33
< report >I think labeling it a minor spoiler might also depend... like if you're expecting a character to become the protagonist's girlfriend from the get-go, it wouldn't really be a spoiler to tag her as such, would it?

If you're expecting her to become a girlfriend and she becomes a wife, however, then yeah, that's a spoiler. Or if they start off engaged or married and break off their engagement/marriage in order to become ordinary boyfriend and girlfriend, then it might also be a spoiler.

It is a very common trait, sure, but it's hardly the only common trait. Many relationships in many VNs result in the boyfriend/girlfriend status... but not all of them. Plenty instead go sexfriends, marriage, sex slave, NTR, or just one night stand directions instead.Last modified on 2023-03-20 at 22:37
#3110 by kei-tr
2023-03-21 at 00:16
< report >
It is a very common trait, sure, but it's hardly the only common trait.

Degree of how common they are changes. For example: let's say 15% of all heroines are sisters, and that can be considered common, sure. But I wouldn't get surprised if 99% (maybe even more) of the main characters are girlfriends/boyfriends.

Plenty instead go sexfriends, marriage, sex slave, NTR, or just one night stand directions instead.

That doesn't mean they are not girlfriend/boyfriend at the same time or some point or route.

In case of my point isn't clearly understood here is an example: I was checking out Kunado Kokuki and saw every single heroine had Role > Girlfriend trait. But it's impossible to determine if one/some/all of them are girlfriends from the start or if they become girlfriends after you enter their route. As I said, the overwhelming majority of main characters are becomes girlfriends/boyfriends at some point. So, adding those traits to every single one of them is unhelpful. It's like adding ear trait to every one of them. Every human being has an ear, so how is that gonna help? But if the usage of traits is limited to relationships already established at the start of the story (like their tag counterparts), then it gonna make it easy to distinguish the existence of those relationships and prevent getting confused from being unable to determine if relationships are established from the beginning or after a specific route started.Last modified on 2023-03-21 at 00:24
#3111 by SomeDude
2023-03-21 at 02:07
< report >When every heroine has a certain trait, it's more indicative of the genre and setting than it is of VNs as a whole. For example, most of the heroines of a high school romance would have the girlfriend trait, sure. And all of them would have the high school trait, while many would have the classmate trait, and the school uniform trait, etc.

But in, say, a hardcore rape game featuring an all-adult cast, they might not have any of these traits. Just because a trait is common, doesn't mean it's useless... the purpose of these traits is to inform people about the sort of content present in these VNs. When the heroines all have a "girlfriend" trait, all it does is tell the reader that it's a dating sim, which will attract people who enjoy dating sims and discourage people who don't.
#3112 by Mrkew
2023-03-21 at 02:08
< report >A plot focused game will still have token relationships because of how routes work. That trait is not at all indicative of the genre.
#3113 by Ezezin
2023-03-22 at 07:46
< report >Do we really need separate traits for Role > Priest and Role > Priestess? I think those traits should be merged, since we can filter characters by sex anyway.
#3114 by bassttark
2023-03-22 at 08:04
< report >#3105
Your search query is wrong. In your link, you are searching for a visual novel that "Has a character that matches this filters: no discreet sex", so if there is any character that does not have discreet sex the vn is good, even if all the other characters have discreet sex.

If you want visual novels with no discreet sex you should select "Does not have a character that matches these filters: discreet sex", so link instead of your link .
#3115 by dostedt
2023-03-22 at 08:11
< report >#3113 My question would be what it should be called after a merge. The main issue I have are the child traits. If we call it "Priest" after the merge, one of the child traits will be Miko, which is a female only trait which would a bit weird to have under a male term of Priest. If you call it "Priestess", the child trait Christian Priest, a male only trait, would be under it which would be weird. There would need to be a new term used for the trait and the two gender specific names as aliases at the very least.Last modified on 2023-03-22 at 08:14
#3116 by SomeDude
2023-03-22 at 08:22
< report >#3116 You could just merge and rename them as Clergy, a term which encompasses a broad range of religious occupations. I can see Miko being a child trait of Clergy while Priest and Priestess are basically synonyms.Last modified on 2023-03-22 at 08:23
#3117 by barfboy
2023-03-23 at 01:13
< report >I would agree with that, especially since priest/priestess typically have duties and restrictions which general clergy do not. The boys passing out communion are clergy and are certainly not priests. I don't know enough about shinto but I think Miko do general duties at shrines, much like monks while a priest/priestess is there to lead services. Shinto has priestesses, yes? I don't think shinto priestesses are Miko. I think that's a different category entirely. So I think a broad clergy trait would be great and priest/priestess should be a subtrait beneath it.

Miko would therefore be a subtrait of clergy as would Christian priest and nun. Then general priest/priestess can be merged without any fuss.


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