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#3001 by catboy
2022-10-05 at 15:10
< report >It'd especially help for non-English VNs where exact identity is never specified. Lots of foreign languages don't even have words for these specific identities.
#3002 by dostedt
2022-10-09 at 22:10
< report >My post #2919 was not addressed. Can a mod please take a look at it? The vtuber tag has been active for a long while now. However, the vtuber trait was rejected as indicated in my post. But if we can have the tag, can we please add the trait? It can be adjusted if the rejected entry is not up to par, but since it was rejected once, I thought it would be better to sort it out in this thread versus trying to make it again.Last modified on 2022-10-09 at 22:10
#3003 by Santer
2022-10-10 at 01:54
< report >#3002 Are you sure you are adding this new VTuber trait correctly? Because I've played Amelia Watson Case File no.420 and I don't remember any of the characters from that game streaming (neither with a face cam nor using a separate persona/avatar). I mean, I don't think this trait was supposed to be somehow equivalent to Role > Based on a Fictional Character (not that this one would apply here).

Also, the current description of Role > Virtual YouTuber applies only to the actual person doing the stream (i.e. performing the character, or "naka no hito"), not to their VTuber avatar. I'm not sure if this was intentional, but I can see that it would make sense not to mix these roles, and we already have Role > Virtual Avatar. On the other hand, from the audience's perspective the one doing videos and streams is the persona of the virtual avatar. So if a VN features interactions between the virtual avatar and viewers, Role > Online Streamer could still be used I guess.
#3004 by Ezezin
2022-10-10 at 02:49
< report >I agree with Santer. Role > Virtual YouTuber should be used on fictional characters that have that role, not if a character is based on a real life avatar or streamer. I think what you really wanted was "Based on a Virtual Avatar" or "Based on a Virtual YouTuber".

I didn't read that VN, but if those characters are not virtual avatars (meaning they have their own stories and personalities and are not a representation of another in-game character) only use Role > Based on a Fictional Character.Last modified on 2022-10-10 at 02:59
#3005 by NaioHoras
2022-10-10 at 04:32
< report >mostly agree with Santer & Ezezin about the trait should only be applied if the character indeed has that role in-game.
although, I do think that the trait should also be applied to both the person and the virtual avatar as there's no harm doing that. in fact, it makes more sense that way, because a Virtual Avatar does not mean that they are a Virtual Streamer, and there is also cases where a Virtual Streamer only appears in their only avatar form in-game, and probably vice versa (as I never seen that yet). this is most useful when doing a search.

I suggest to revise the description clarifying that.Last modified on 2022-10-10 at 04:34
#3006 by dostedt
2022-10-10 at 04:54
< report >There are 2 types of instances we are discussing here. But I have a point to make for each.

1). There are VNs made using known Vtubers, but the universe in the VN does not treat them as Vtubers, like Amelia Watson Case File no.420. If we are to exclude both the vtuber tag and trait for it (since they are not actual vtubers in the VN), how will a vtuber fan find one of these VNs that are specifically made for vtuber fans if we do not allow them to be called vtubers?

Anybody reading one of these is reading them because their favorite vtuber is in a VN. But by definition, they are not vtubers in that universe. I think they should be counted as vtubers in these instances because excluding the tag and trait will make these hard to discover for vtuber fans (the ones meant to read them).

2) There are VNs in which a character is an online streamer, who does vtubing. When the vtuber personality is known, it seems that there is a separate instance made for them. The definition we are using is "A virtual YouTuber is an online entertainer who uses a virtual avatar generated using computer graphics". This implies BOTH the entertainer and the persona. I would like to suggest using the trait in both instances, but also having the virtual avatar trait for the actual persona instance. So just the vtuber trait for the character, but using both the vtuber trait and virtual avatar trait for the vtuber persona.Last modified on 2022-10-10 at 05:01
#3007 by dostedt
2022-10-10 at 05:10
< report >Sorry for double posting, but to really hammer home my first point.

Amelia Watson Case File no.420
Nijisanji no Type Shindan
Sakura-iro Dreamer

By the logic presented in your posts, none of the characters in these above VNs are vtubers, despite them all being well-known vtubers to everybody. This also means that the vtuber tag in the VN should be removed since they are not vtubers according to what your posts say. But should these 4 VNs REALLY not be considered vtuber VNs? That's their entire shtick. How would a vtuber fan find these vtuber specific VNs and characters? Or are we just removing their vtuber traits, but leaving the vtuber tag for some reason? Either go all the way and delete both or keep both.Last modified on 2022-10-10 at 05:12
#3008 by NaioHoras
2022-10-10 at 05:41
< report >tag is built somewhat different. you add Death Note because it is based on death note. you mark the character with Role > Based on a Fictional Character, no need to create a "death note" trait for it.

but then again, we also have Role > Vocaloid, which is solely exist to mark vocaloid character. the thing with this trait that Vocaloid is still easily defined, and no confusion from it since there is no a profession called "vocaloid" irl.

however, it's different for vtuber as it has two instances: VTtuber which is a profession in real life; and vtuber which is a character's profession in-game. both are equally important as a trait.

in the end, I would say rename Role > Vocaloid to "Based on a Vocaloid Character" and place it under Role > Based on a Fictional Character, make a new trait "Based on a Virtual Streamer" for the former case and rename Role > Virtual YouTuber to Virtual Streamer to latter case.Last modified on 2022-10-10 at 05:55
#3009 by dostedt
2022-10-10 at 05:54
< report >#3008 I think that idea makes sense. But it is important to make sure that the term "vtuber" is at least an alias for both the proposed ""Based on a Virtual Streamer" and "Virtual Streamer" traits. The specifics, I'll leave up to you guys. I just want to be able to easily search for vtuber related things on here without needing to jump through hoops like before the tag and traits were made.
#3010 by beliar
2022-10-10 at 17:02
< report >God dammit, niche fandoms are crazy. One of the reason I didn't want to approve this initially, is because I feared it would create confusion, and I was proven to be correct. Did some changes to the approved trait and create a proposal Role > Based on a Virtual Streamer for those characters based on VTubers that are not necessarily VTubers in-universe. Could you look through the proposal, and see if it's okay to approve it, because it surely is not okay to use Role > Virtual Online Streamer the way Dostedt is using it?
#3011 by NaioHoras
2022-10-11 at 02:46
< report >I see no problem in the description for Role > Based on a Virtual Streamer.

although, regarding Role > Virtual Online Streamer, like I've explained in my previous post, I think it should be okay to use both Role > Virtual Online Streamer and Role > Virtual Avatar concurrently, since not all Virtual Avatar is a Virtual Streamer. it could be a VR avatar, an Online Game Avatar, and what not.
so the desc would be:
Use the trait for the actual person who performs the virtual online streaming. Apply both this trait and Role > Virtual Avatar concurrently for their avatar, if it figures prominently in the game.
#3012 by Mrkew
2022-10-11 at 11:29
< report >Role > Maou should also be a child tag of Role > Monarch
#3013 by beliar
2022-10-11 at 20:26
< report >@Naiohoras: Applied your proposed changes.

Role > Maou should also be a child tag of Role > Monarch
Does it apply in all cases? I can imagine a scenario where the Maou was dethroned by his rival before the game starts, and he needs to reclaim his throne. That would make him a Royalty, but not a Monarch.
#3014 by barfboy
2022-10-11 at 20:46
< report >No need to imagine it, here's an example
Saikyou no Maou-sama ga Nyotaika!? ~Hatsujou Yuusha ni Semararemakuru Goku Ero Haramase Quest~
#3015 by dostedt
2022-10-11 at 20:51
< report >Thank you, beliar and NaioHoras for the 2 new vtuber traits. I appreciate it!Last modified on 2022-10-11 at 20:51
#3016 by bassttark
2022-10-20 at 19:22
< report >Engages in (Sexual) > Footjob and Subject of (Sexual) > Footjob have an incorrect Wikipedia link.
#3017 by Ileca
2022-10-24 at 21:13
< report >Subject of (Sexual) > Whipping (BDSM) is not flagged as sexual. "Apply this trait on characters being whipped in a sexual context."
#3018 by barfboy
2022-10-31 at 21:02
< report >Can "Pictogram" and "Pictograph" be added as aliases to Eyes > Symbol a link may also be helpful
I also made an image of some common pictographs.
#3019 by catboy
2022-11-02 at 13:42
< report >For Hair > Longer Sidehair:

Again, I've already said why it should be split. I'll say it again: look at Anzaki Kaoru. See how her hair is way longer in the front? Plenty of other characters have this style as well, and other people in this thread have agreed it should be split.

Now, let's look at other characters in the "sidehair" trait. Characters such as ??? take the majority of this trait, where the sidehair isn't longer than the "back hair."

I previously attempted to add this trait under Hair > Tomboyish Sidetails. It was rejected, and part of it was apparently the name. I changed the name. This is such a popular hairstyle in VNs that it doesn't make sense not to split it.

If you can come up with a better name, you can change it to that. But no, it isn't the same as just the "sidehair" trait. It would only be for characters with longer sidehair.
#3020 by biggaymer
2022-11-02 at 14:09
< report >pretty sure link should be hard worker
#3021 by rampaa
2022-11-06 at 08:44
< report >Subject of (Sexual) > Gang Rape should be a child of Subject of (Sexual) > Gang Bang.

Engages in (Sexual) > Triple Boobjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Group (4+) Boobjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Twin Footjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Triple Footjob and Engages in (Sexual) > Group (4+) Footjob should be children of Engages in (Sexual) > Group Sex of One Male and Several Females.

Subject of (Sexual) > Twin Boobjob and Subject of (Sexual) > Triple Boobjob should be children of Subject of (Sexual) > Boobjob and Engages in (Sexual) > Group Sex of One Male and Several Females.

Subject of (Sexual) > Group (4+) Boobjob, Subject of (Sexual) > Twin Footjob, Subject of (Sexual) > Triple Footjob and Subject of (Sexual) > Group (4+) Footjob should be children of Engages in (Sexual) > Group Sex of One Male and Several Females.

Subject of (Sexual) > Twin Bodyjob, Subject of (Sexual) > Twin Buttjob, Subject of (Sexual) > Twin+ Legjob, Subject of (Sexual) > Twin Handjob, Subject of (Sexual) > Triple Handjob and Subject of (Sexual) > Group (4+) Handjob should be children of Subject of (Sexual) > Group Sex.

Engages in (Sexual) > Twin Bodyjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Twin Buttjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Footjob on Multiple Penises, Engages in (Sexual) > Twin+ Legjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Double Handjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Twin Handjob, Engages in (Sexual) > Triple Handjob and Engages in (Sexual) > Group (4+) Handjob should be children of Engages in (Sexual) > Group Sex.
#3022 by Ezezin
2022-11-06 at 16:07
< report >
Gang Rape should be a child of Subject of Gang Bang
Current description doesn't specify if gang bang should be used only on rape. And I found one visual novel with a character participating in a gang bang willingly.

[...] Footjobs [...] should be children of Group Sex of One Male and Several Females.
BL exist.
Not sure about multiple boobjobs: Are there any character with breasts that can't be defined as female who participates in group sex? Did a quick check in link and I mostly saw misstaging and futanary with Engages in (Sexual) > Group Sex of One Male and Several Females. If futanary can't be considered male or female, then I say the boobjobs traits should not be children of Engages in (Sexual) > Group Sex of One Male and Several Females, and those characters need to be fixed.Last modified on 2022-11-06 at 16:08
#3023 by beliar
2022-11-06 at 16:09
< report >
Current description doesn't specify if gang bang should be used only on rape. And I found one visual novel with a character participating in a gang bang willingl
It should be a child, not a parent, so what you said has no bearing on that. ;-)
#3024 by Ezezin
2022-11-06 at 16:14
< report >Ohh, yeah you are right. Stupid me I read that as "Subject of (Sexual) > Gang Rape should be a parent of Subject of (Sexual) > Gang Bang". *facepalm*
#3025 by rampaa
2022-11-06 at 16:22
< report >
BL exist.
I wish it didn't. Their descriptions would beg to differ. :P