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#1101 by december
2017-06-12 at 11:36
Always looking for interesting new ways to expand them. Whoever came up with legs lock I think that was a good idea, sad it got rejected.

Another I'd like to propose based on link a tag for "Dwi Pada Sirsasana" as this seems to be the technical term for having both legs behind your head, which I do recall having seen in a variety of pics before.

It could possibly be part of a larger "contortion" related trait, as some characters (usually women) do extreme poses like that which would be an interesting commonality to track.

For some 2D examples from gelbooru:

Ashelia Delmasca link

Cammy White link

Nekomusume from Gegege no Kitaru link

Nami from One Piece: link

Tatsuno Malm from Dinosaur King: link

Genma Iroe: link

Huang Baoling: link

Komori Kiri from Sayonara Zetsubou link

Kanojo x Kanojo link animation from an anime

Mazaki Anzu from YGO link

Poison from Final Fight link

Tsukishirou Ouka link shows the association with this and Bondage speaking of which, shouldn't this be made a co-parent trait of Bondage Sex ?

Wii Fit Trainer link

this work by Kirushi link

this work by Machino Henmaru link

this work by Nozo King link which shows it could have a relation to Autocunnilingus although not all cases of AC would qulify, since if the knees were fully bent the feet wouldn't be behind the head.

link of Sasami or link of Tatsuno Malm on the other hand, would need a different name since the feet aren't actually behind the head, they're ALMOST there.

I'll keep an eye out for examples from VNs, it's not something I'd know how to search for, I was just browsing the 'contortion' tag on Gelbooru but I don't know if Getchu would have a capacity like that.

There is a 1-legged variation called "Eka Pada Sirsasana"

It seems like the collective idea is "Pada Sirsasana" with "Eka" meaning 1 and "Dwi" meaning 2, probably Indian words for one and two.

These need not be sex in that pose, it could also reflect someone who adopts it during the novel in a non-sexual situation, such as these 3:
? link
dearmybrothers link
shinama link

I would probably alias "contortion" or "stretching" or "doublejointed" for these since people wouldn't know to search them, kind of like we learn about terms like "Seventh Posture" from VNDB

"Upward Bow" link for link

Backbends like these 9:
2-g link
as109 link
bosshi link
caracol link
happoubi link
mameshiba link
metagraft: link
purple link
saxasa link
appear to be a step in the Chest Roll process ... link I've seen it before in contortionists but still looking for the right term. It is like a Chest Stand "Shalabhasana" link but folded over into a backbend. In link the "Poorna" version appears to approach this. This 2012 video link calls it a "chest stand lift" while link calls it "headsit" and link says it is a "Chest Stand" and "Head Sit" and "Backfold". I would say "chest stand" since "head sit" implies the buttox is making contact with the back of the skull, which is only the case in extreme situations.

If anyone ever comes across link or link in a visual novel , it appears to resemble and extreme version of link with Vrischika also called Scoprion, Pincha Mayurasana is a forearm stand while Adho Mukha Vrksasana is a handstand.

Soon as tags are editable on gelbooru again I'll see about adding them so there could be a single URL to link.
#1102 by takata
2017-06-12 at 14:38
Hm... if you want to tag individual images, that extra level of detail makes sense. If you're tagging characters, I don't think it makes sense to go into -too- much detail.
#1103 by skorpiondeath
2017-06-12 at 18:37
Twin Braids description states:
This character has two braids.
I think description should be changed in a way that reflects that "twin braids" are ofc two braid but in a mirrored fashion. A character with 2 braids but different in position or style could just use Multiple Braids.

I think Off Screen Sex should be marked as sexual trait.
#1104 by blue
2017-06-13 at 03:38
"Quiver" - Sorry for the trouble, but I am still unused to adding traits to the database and forgot to format this very word in the description into a (i.e. Wikipedia) link. I'd like to request this being done before (and if) the trait becomes approved of.
#1105 by skorpiondeath
2017-06-19 at 17:36
I think Reverse Rape should be changed... Number 1 rule in hentai: males rape females... With "Reverse Rape" we expect to find a fetish involving females (weak sex) raping males (strong sex)!! Females raping females should be somethng separate from that, like in the tag system where we have Yuri Rape separate from Reverse Rape. I hope we are willing to change Reverse Rape trying not to take it literally but trying to respect tag system and fetish and maybe propose a new trait for "Yuri Rape".
#1106 by savagetiger
2017-06-29 at 17:39
Sex in front of an Audience - front should be capitalized.
#1107 by barfboy
2017-07-01 at 19:27
Playing Hipparikko ~Shimai ga H Battle?!~ and the protagonist's full name is changeable by the user. This causes his sisters and mother to change their last name by default to whatever's chosen for his. Their first names cannot be changed. I assume this still falls under 'nameable' trait?
#1108 by tapestree
2017-07-04 at 02:21
I agree with skorpiondeath on the definition of reverse rape. The "reverse" part means "the opposite of what is expected". In the case of rape, reverse means women raping men rather than the other way around. Females raping females or males raping males isn't an "expected" form of rape or the direct opposite of what's "expected", it's simply unexpected.

For a contrasting example, in the case of ryona (fetishized beating), the expectation is that this refers to a woman being beaten, so reverse ryona simply refers to a man being beaten. Here, the one doing the beating doesn't matter (i.e. female versus female is still "ryona", man versus male is still "reverse ryona").

I personally don't see a need to add a yuri rape trait, though; since the trait system isn't like the tag system and benefits from having the character's gender specified and filterable, just changing this trait's default name to be "Rape by Female" (maybe adding "Reverse Rape" as an alias) seems like it would suffice.

On a side note, I also saw that "subject to cross-dressing" was in the queue trait. Allow me to comment on that by saying that it seems to tie into the fetish of forced feminization, so if it's indeed accepted, perhaps giving it the alias of "cross-dressing" but making the default name something that includes the word "forced" would help people avoid accidentally selecting the wrong trait. It would help avoid a situation like the current one where many characters "engage in bondage" when they're the ones tied up.Last modified on 2017-07-04 at 02:32
#1109 by savagetiger
2017-07-10 at 20:45
Masturbation with water 'water' should be capitalized.
#1110 by kight099
2017-07-27 at 21:09
Public Morals Committee Member should be an alias for Discipline Committee Member. Same with Discipline Committee Leader.
#1111 by kight099
2017-07-27 at 21:54
Hair Flower should be more specific about whenever the flower is real or not.
#1112 by traumatizer
2017-07-28 at 16:33
Shouldn't massage be a non-sexual trait considering the child trait erotic massage is one?
#1113 by lunaterra
2017-07-29 at 16:29
Figment - the "Imaginary" alias is misspelled. (Personally, I think Imaginary would be a better name for the trait than Figment, but that's not a big deal.)
#1114 by savagetiger
2017-08-03 at 05:42
'Quiet' should be removed as an alias of Silent and a note added that those characters shouldn't talk at all. It's been misused an awful lot on characters that talk normally.

Maybe add it as an alias to Taciturn.
#1115 by wakaranai
2017-08-03 at 08:32
^year ago lol t3314.940
#1116 by armony
2017-08-03 at 09:23
^ Why is it a personality trait anyway? If a character does not speak at all, they are effectively mute. It should be under disability as muteness, this way there would be no confusion.Last modified on 2017-08-03 at 11:48
#1117 by lunaterra
2017-08-03 at 16:14
No. Being unable to speak is a disability; being able to speak but choosing not to is a personality trait.
#1118 by wakaranai
2017-08-03 at 19:59
^so, you're agreeing with armony but for some reason say "no". huh?

yet again:
character is able to speak, but chooses not to -> taciturn
character is unable to speak -> silent
#1119 by lunaterra
2017-08-03 at 20:22
They're saying that the "silent" trait should be placed under "disability." It shouldn't, because not all silent characters are disabled; some simply choose not to speak. So no, we're not agreeing.

"Taciturn" means "rarely speaks", not "never speaks". The traits should stay as they are (with the exception of the quiet alias). Maybe make a separate "Mute" trait for characters that are confirmed as being unable to speak.Last modified on 2017-08-03 at 20:24
#1120 by wakaranai
2017-08-03 at 20:31
yeah, like it's not confusing enough with two traits, let's add third.
#1121 by rider
2017-08-03 at 22:40
I'm having trouble with the traits Sexual Corruption, Sexual Slavery (Choukyou Variation) and Mindbreak
They have nconsiderable overlap so I'm never sure which to use, which applies more to a situation (or if more than one applies). So I decided to ask if people see more clearly where to draw lines between them than I do, what situation would better apply to each of these.
#1122 by infernoplex
2017-08-04 at 19:12
#1121 - I myself had stumbled upon a similiar dilemma when I was editing traits for characters that appear in some of those BDSM visual novels. Nukiges are particularly nasty in that regard because in so many occasions they overlap so much that basically you could say all of them apply to a single character by default. But in some cases I feel like it's justified to have all 3 of those traits existing separately.

Let's look at an example:

Senoo Yuuko - All 3 of the traits stand true for her (Sexual Corruption, Sexual Slavery Choukyou Variation and Mindbreak) but for Sawada Kumiko only 2 of those stand true in my opinion (Sexual Slavery Choukyou Variation and Sexual Corruption).

The reason why I didn't add Mindbreak trait for Kumiko at that time was because I didn't find enough brutality in her route to consider her state mind-broken (honestly, it felt more like a mix-up between choukyou and almost consensual sex slavery so she didn't feel that kind of mindbroken compared to Yuuko). So that's how I am trying to interpret the difference between mind-break and those other two traits when looking at characters from a BDSM nukige VN. For Mindbreak I specifically look at the brutality and determine if it was brutal enough to consider the state of the character at the end clearly mind-broken.

Also, be aware of it that there might be some VNs out there that can have mindbroken characters but no sexual slavery and corruption at all (characters that suffer from heavy psychological traumas can become lifeless husks in a clearly mind-broken state but they don't have to neccesarily become sex slaves). So that's how I think Mindbreak trait should be looked at.

As for how to differ between Sexual Corruption and Sexual Slavery Choukyou Variation, I'd say they overlap. I haven't found yet a single case where a character becomes a sex slave in choukyou variation and doesn't suffer from sexual corruption.
#1123 by skorpiondeath
2017-08-04 at 19:39
Sexual Corruption and Sexual Slavery Choukyou Variation don't overlap. You can be sexually corrupted while not being subject to any sexual slavery at all.
#1124 by rider
2017-08-04 at 21:56
#1122 - I kinow the traits not always overlap, I was asking for guidance on how to act when they do overlap. As you said, Sexual Salvery Choukyou Variation pretty much doesn't occour without the character also going through Sexual Corruption, it's basically a requeriment. So should I add both tags, or just Choukyou already imples sexual corruption? I'm also partial to adding both if they apply, but i worry other people would find it redundad.
And as #1123 said you can have a character suffer Sexual Corruption but not become a sex slave, so it's not the validity of the traits I'm bringing into question, just how to handle their overlap.

I think the way you use to determine if Mindbreak is happening or not is a good way of looking at it. In addition, the scene where the character "breaks" is also important. In most cases when mindbreak leading to nymphomania is involved, even if the character resistance has been lowered by the sexual training, there is a moment where the character crosses a point of no return. A clear turning point in the character's personality and actions, they go from still denying pleasure (even if they obviously feel it) to openly accepting and craving it. That's where I draw the line between Mindbreak and just sexual corruption or sexual training.
Ths does not necessarily happen with "lifeless husk" mindbreak, as sometimes the narrative will just jump forward a bit and show the catatonic character without showing the moment they broke.Last modified on 2017-08-04 at 21:58
#1125 by infernoplex
2017-08-04 at 22:24
#1124 - Ah, sorry then, my bad, I didn't answer your question on that matter. Adding both of them is okay in my opinion, at least I have been doing it like that and didn't see anybody complain about it yet. Maybe it's redundant as you pointed out but I think that question should be left to the traits mod to think about. So far I haven't seen anybody say that it's wrong to apply both of those traits at the same time and nobody pointed it out that it's redundant yet (to my knowledge).

Also, you pointed out something I didn't think about yet relating to mindbreak trait. Some VNs don't neccesarily show the moment of character's mindbreak and instead, like you pointed out, just do a fast forward at the ending and show the character mind-broken. Now there's no guidance on the matter whether we should apply that trait if the mind-breaking is presented like that. I was applying it in all cases where I saw it happen, whether in the epilogue of the VN or somewhere in the middle of the story. Sometimes the "breaking point" isn't revealed in full detail in the VN but is implied that it happened. I think it should be used in any case, no matter how it's presented in the VN.

#1123 - True, I overlooked that point.


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