Traits

Posted in

#1676 by warfoki
2019-05-12 at 22:28
Well, shit. I figured that I clear up the trait queue, but damn that list is intimidating. I've never seen the queue having a second page before... I suppose maybe I should do my "job" here more than like twice a year...

Edit: went through like half of the list, I got tired, I'll go through the rest tomorrow.Last modified on 2019-05-13 at 01:14
#1677 by traumatizer
2019-05-14 at 18:05
don't mind me~Last modified on 2019-05-18 at 11:22
#1678 by eacil
2019-05-14 at 21:40
I-I am sorry to tell you... it is still the wrong thread. :(
No, don't self-denigrate yourself like that! It happens to everyone to fail so many times, look, I am reporting r39010 seems to be dead. If I slip two more times in less than five minutes, you won't be alone anymore!
#1679 by eacil
2019-05-14 at 21:46
I am so sorry, I only failed twice and this one is included. I... I did my best. :(((
#1680 by lunaterra
2019-05-14 at 22:40
Poncho shouldn't have "Native American Clothes" as an alias. It doesn't even make sense, tbh. Ponchos originated with Native Americans but aren't exclusive to them, nor are ponchos a universal Native piece of clothing--most of the characters tagged with Native American don't wear them. See also link
#1681 by donkeyskin
2019-05-18 at 07:46
I just submitted the Nymph trait, although I managed to add the wikipedia link wrong, sorry...
Anyway I wanted to specify in this thread that I put nereid as an alias because it's a term that I often saw used in general for all types of nymphs.
BUT it's also true that technically Sea nymph/Nereid could be added as a child trait of Nymph.

I submitted the Nymph trait because three protagonists of The Waters Above: Prelude are sea nymphs. I was going to add the Non-human trait to them but as its description suggested, I made a new trait since I felt nymph could be a relatively common trait.
#1682 by lywzc
2019-05-25 at 06:35
The Usagimimi Heroine should be named "Usamimi Heroine" without "gi" according to link and link.
And considering Bunnygirl Heroine is a Child tag of Usagimimi Heroine but they contradict, I suggest making Usagimimi Heroine a appearance only trait.
BTW, both Inumimi Heroine and Nekomimi Heroine correctly state that it is an appearance only trait, so we can copy the description of these to fit the Usagimimi Heroine.Last modified on 2019-05-25 at 06:39
#1683 by alto
2019-05-25 at 11:47
Former Celebrity does not make much sense to me. Is it for former artists, former celebrities or former celebrity artists?

Edit, comments on a few more of the new traits:
Manipulation's first sentence should be "is manipulated by". The third sentence could be added to Manipulation to match. Might also be good to link them to each other in the description like "Apply Manipulation to the manipulated character"

Sex Involving Body Control could be a child of Manipulation. The description for it has a lot of grammar mistakes and could stand to be made gender neutral.

If it doesn't already, I think Pregnancy (by other) should default to minor spoiler.

Phasmophobia "ghost" -> "ghosts" in description and alias

Maybe "GL Fan" for an alias of Girls' Love FanLast modified on 2019-05-25 at 11:59
#1684 by warfoki
2019-05-26 at 13:15
So, to address a couple things here:

@Lywzc:
Uhh, I don't actually speak Japanese so the discussion about this in here and in t3617 is bloody confusing to me. Since I'd prefer to keep a discussion in one place, I'll address this over there.

@Alto:

Former Celebrity: Yeah, now that I think about it, I should REALLY rework the description there. Basically the idea is that these characters used to be (or to a degree, still are) famous in the media: singers, musicians, artists, reality TV stars, whatever. But they either faded out of the spotlight unwillingly (eg. reality TV stars once their reality show ends) or retired and no longer pursue whatever career was their claim to fame (a perfect IRL example would be Sir Sean Connery who retired in 2006, only did reprisals of his old characters like two times since then and the last time was 9 years ago, has been avoiding publicity and interviews to boot).

Manipulation - The submitter got lazy with copying the description, thanks for catching it, fixed now.

Sex Involving Body Control - Fixed. I won't put it under manipulation though, as they are different concepts.

Pregnancy (by other) - Agreed and fixed.

Phasmophobia & Girls' Love Fan - Fixed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, with that out of the way, I got a couple traits left in the queue where I'd value some input on:

Pregnancy (by other) - I've approved this, but now that I've checked it again, I realized that doing so as is was a mistake. I either have to add "Consensual" to it, or change the description so that it doesn't say that the pregnancy is the character's willful decision, because I can already see it being misused. My take: edit the description so that consensuality doesn't matter and add a note on tagging Forced Pregnancy whenever it's relvant, then make a child trait for the fully consensual variant.

Handholding - Not sure if serious or just memeing. Also not sure if we actually need this if serious, seems pointless to me...

Nudist - How is this any different from its parent trait, Naked in any real capacity?

Sex With Insects - I'll remove the "no monsters" part, both from this and the tag, since after going through the tagged VNs I literally cannot find any where real life sized insects are involved. I'm not sure how would that even work logistically... The only question is, do you think we need a child tag / trait for real-life, actual insects? I really don't, but maybe I'm just ignorant like that...

Pedophile, Otouto Complex & Imouto Complex - *sigh* I admittedly left this in the queue last time hoping that one of my collegues here will bite the bullet and deal with these. We had several LONG discussions over adding traits like these in the past, pretty much ended without a conclusive agreement and so I just decided that it's more trouble than it's worth. One of the better conversations on the matter: linkLast modified on 2019-05-26 at 13:15
#1685 by sakurakoi
2019-05-26 at 15:13
Gotta love Pedophile's parent traits, Criminal and Insanity~
Seriously though, the latter two really are too vague in terms of definition. The reason why Lolicon and Shotacon are not, despite seeming so, is because one can just say in one line how one prefers a small, petite or cute female/male form to a high degree (to be classified as fetish). The traits may also be applied to Pedophiles but if ya keep it short, without the silly "all lolicons do want to bang a child" nor with exclaiming the contrary, the trait is merely applied to all those who focus on that.

Nudist is also rather similar to Exhibitionist, the difference is little, especially in VNs. So nah, no nudists.

For Sex With Insects, there might actually be plenty where the insects are no monster, Cyclet got a series at least where one should not really call them monsters but the line between monster and what is not really is vague. Remove the line about the "no monster" requirement indeed.
#1686 by [deleted]
2019-05-26 at 18:29
Bound in Routine has an insectoid hero that I guess you could classify as a monster, but I'd probably put in the category of Monster Boy (which isn't a tag *or* trait yet? weird).
#1687 by beliar
2019-05-26 at 18:30
Pregnancy (by other) - I believe the "of their own free will" part was added to the description to differentiate between this and Forced Pregnancy. If the description is amended to remove consensuality from it, then VNs tagged with Forced Pregnancy, will always end up tagged with Pregnancy (by other) too. I personally would rename the trait to "Consensual Pregnancy (by other)" - that way we wouldn't need to create yet another child trait.

Handholding - no, just no. I have rejected "Kissing" previously, and this one is no different in its relevancy and application. You know, I'll just go and reject it.

Nudist - yes, seems completely redundant. I would remove it.

Sex With Insects - ugh, not an expert on the topic, but as far as I have seen, in the scenes where the insects are actually insects, they are usually different to the real life counterparts in some way - usually size and the penchant to squeeze into tight damp holes. Hence, they still can basically be classified as monsters. So, I agree about the removal of the "no monsters" part.

---

And one question directly from me. I recently encountered a VN, which has a perfect example of Netorase, but who exactly has to be given the trait? Say, the guy is selling his wife for favours. Should the husband and wife be given the trait, or is in only one of them? The description is really not clear.
#1688 by warfoki
2019-05-26 at 20:35
Sex With Insects - So, i went through a number of Cyclet galleries on exhentai to check (ugh, thanks for the nightmares btw, much of their shit is just fubar even by my standards....) and even in the cases where they went for realistic insects, we still have them oversized and have some weird appendages.

Pregnancy (by other) - I disagree with that notion completely. Yes, Pregnancy (by other) without the consensual clause will overlap with Forced Pregnancy a lot, but that's not a first and I don't see issue with that, as longas there are enough cases where they do NOT overlap. And I'm sure of that: a lot nukiges with Sexual Slavery (Choukyou Variation) have the heroines mindbroken and pregnant by the end, without anybody but the protagonist touching them. Characters in these can easily have Pregnancy (by other). While these two will overlap, they are different concepts, albeit often related to the same fetish.

Netorase - Well, based on the usage so far, tag both. The problem here is that if we separate it to engages in / subject of, there will be quite some confusion over which party should be tagged with what.Last modified on 2019-05-26 at 20:37
#1689 by entra
2019-05-26 at 21:07
@warfoki for Former Celebrity, if it includes things like reality tv stars, imo you should drop it having anything to do with a profession. If it's inclusive, I'd think it'd work for things like former news presenters, former idols, former leader of a political party/movement, former sports stars etc.Last modified on 2019-05-26 at 21:09
#1690 by warfoki
2019-05-26 at 21:23
The distinction about "famous in the media" is there, because there are experts, scientists and whatnot who are famous in their own circles, but not really among the general public. If I'd ask people to name a famous mathematician for example, most would would have trouble doing so (myself included).

Basically I wanted it to be media personalities.
#1691 by sakurakoi
2019-05-26 at 21:40
If I'd ask people to name a famous mathematician for example, most would would have trouble doing so (myself included).
Well, can you name one of the last noble price winners? To be frank, I could not and I shall excuse it with that general "fame" simply being to passing. Rather what one remembers is the country they are from otherwise... there are just too many news for those who want to be "educated" with people that are celebrated for this and that.

Which, to be blunt, is not relevant enough to spend an hour each day to get hopefully enough info, which might as well also repeat tomorrow (and the day after that), or in other news channels. Not to mention how one can easily grow depressed, paranoid and alike but welp, now I'm just ranting.

To be on point, to be a celebrity, one has to stand in the spotlight for quite some time unless one's impact is just that huge to last that some much time, for people to actually remember you even if they do not follow you/is not part of your audience.

By the by, Former Athlete is indeed also what could apply in the same vain as artist and alike, which do not necessarily make one a celebrity just because someone is one. One needs to stand out enough.

Simply put, it's all about common sense, even without this one can clearly tell if someone is a celebrity or not, just due to the fact that one is/was celebrated outside their circle (and not just at a point in time), to have enough fans that know yer face, or at least voice. We know enough celebrities to know when one is not unless one has been literary living under a rock.
#1692 by warfoki
2019-05-28 at 20:39
Added a bunch of group sex traits that I probably should have added years ago. I'll probably look at the monster sex related traits next.

I'll probably throw out the 3 traits remaining in the queue. Now matter how much I think about it, they seem more trouble than they're worth.
#1693 by sakurakoi
2019-05-28 at 20:56
added a bunch of group sex traits that I probably should have added years ago.
or perhaps (nearly) a decade ago, that's how old the tags indeed are, and indeed I doubt I am the only one who found that lack of traits weird but rather than repeatedly asking, we just considered it "one of those cases".

of which another one is indeed Loli- and Shotacon, as well as the counter parts, which relates to MILFs and dandy old men, however they may be coined. Along with other major (sexual) preferences besides orientation which would find at least a hundred of characters. (Currently there are only (Closet) Pervert, S/M as engaging in despite the description clearly reading "The character is a" and Exhibitionist).
I'll probably throw out the 3 traits remaining in the queue. Now matter how much I think about it, they seem more trouble than they're worth.
but at least here is the reason, to deny those, that no one should pretend-play psychologist
#1694 by savagetiger
2019-06-08 at 07:28
Ribbon Headband doesn't need that 'wear' at the end of the sentence.
#1695 by alto
2019-06-08 at 11:26
@1687 For Netorase, I would have thought the active one who initiates events should always be tagged. The heroine (or hero if that exists?) doesn't necessarily ever know it occurred. That said, I guess there's no problem applying to both parties if both are/become aware and consent...

Misc input on other new tags:
Ribbon Headband could use a "Ribbon Hairband" alias.

Sex with Others Only feels like it's in spoiler territory as it's telling you something never happens no matter what.

The wiki link in Damaged Hymen is broken. Not a fan of it being a child of the current parent tags as it contradicts both their descriptions of actual experience.

Maybe "one or more items of pendant jewellery" is better wording in Ornament Hanging from Clothes
#1696 by mysterycorgi
2019-06-10 at 00:54
@1695 Regarding Damaged Hymen...The wikipedia article for gymnastics appears to work but the link does have a ) instead of a ]. I also take issue with the parent tags. But "breaking" a hymen is a physiologically inaccurate description and common misunderstanding that pervades many cultural/social aspects of human sexuality and physiology, so I'm not sure how I feel about the tag as a whole. I recognize that many erotic scenes rely on loss of virginity / deflowering as a kink and utilize the hymen being "broken" (ie. painfully stretched, possibly to the point of bleeding) but that also doesn't apply since the alias of Damaged Hymen is "Hymen Broken Outside a Sexual Intercourse."
On that note, Regenerative Hymen also feels contradictory to Virgin Sex.

Also agree with the thought that Sex with Others Only is very much in spoiler territory no matter how it plays into the plot.

For Ornament Hanging from Clothes perhaps "Clothing Adornment" or "Clothing Ornament" would be better?
#1697 by [deleted]
2019-06-10 at 17:21
I disagree about Sex with Others Only. If the setup creates an expectation that a character will have sex with the protagonist and then they don't, it's a spoiler, but when it's about side characters having sex with other side characters, that's not really important to the plot.
#1698 by kratoscar2008
2019-06-10 at 20:03
Is there any way to see recently tagged traits like we do with tags? If not pls add that function.
#1699 by warfoki
2019-06-10 at 22:42
@Minah: Agreed.

@Kratoscar2008: You are in the wrong thread mate, we can't do anything about that. Try to bug Yorhel with it in t950, maybe it'll happen.
#1700 by kratoscar2008
2019-06-10 at 23:46
Ah sorry thanks.

Reply

You must be logged in to reply to this thread.