Traits

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#1701 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 12:05
A couple additions:

Added Shamisen, surprised that it wasn't a thing already.

Also, mirrored all of the Single Hole Multiple Penetration tags as traits now. Doing so I noticed that Single Hole Double Penetration (Group Sex) was pointing at Double Penetration (Group Sex) as the "engages in" counterpart, which was just dead wrong, since one is about a single orifice being penetrated by two dicks at the time, while the other is about vagina and anus being penetrated at the same time. Made relevant Engages in trait for that, I just hope not too many characters got mistagged because of this oversight.

Edit:
@Skorpiondeath: I'm frankly amazed that you are still managing to come up with new sexual traits on the regular. Though I admit, somehow I doubt that Drill Dildo is gonna catch on. Still, I let it through out of sheer curiosity to be honest.Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 12:16
#1702 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 12:14
Hi warfoki do you think is relevant and possible to create a separate trait "Anal Gaping" as a child of the actual link trait and reorganize images and descriptions accordingly?
#1703 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 12:29
Hmm, that's quite a late change, considering the trait has been used 700+ times by now. Still, I suppose if I could add all the things under Group Sex 2 years late, this can fly as well.

Since Anal Gaping will be a child trait under Gaping, I leave the images as is, just change them to NSFW Example 1 (Anal), etc. Then I copy the 4 relevant images to the new child trait as well. Sounds good?Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 12:30
#1704 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 12:35
Yes I will try to fix most of them. Thank you.

Just one more thing... Anal stretchers (the leather straps used to gape) are merged in the gaping trait, but... I think gaping is gaping and has nothing to do with the device used to achieve that. Gaping can be done without devices or with devices but those devices should stand by themselves. Speculum (Sexual) can be used to achieve gape but it has it's own trait.

So I think anal stretchers should be a separate trait under sexual devices.
#1705 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 12:38
Hmm, should those be a child trait for Anal Gaping them? I mean, with speculums, there are examples where they are just inserted, but not actually opened, so it being entirely separate makes sense, but I don't think it's possible to use anal stretchers without causing gaping, that's kinda the entire point of the device after all.

Edit: Done. Have fun going through 700+ entries sorting this out. :PLast modified on 2019-06-15 at 12:44
#1706 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 12:49
Yes I agree... make it a child trait of Anal Gaping. Anal stretchers imply anal gaping while anal gaping does not imply the use of anal stretchers.
#1707 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 12:53
Question though: would impromptu anal stretchers, like using ducttape, count?
#1708 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 13:04
Probably you are right if we were talking about making a device trait I would fully agree with you. I mean in that case duct tape is NOT an anal stretcher period. We would not consider a metal cilinder tube inserted in vagina a speculum even if used to achieve the same result.

But if you make it a child trait of anal gaping my opinion gets more blurry. I think it's up to you to decide.

Note: I just recall a VN with an homemade Armbinder made of duct tape... can that be considered an armbinder too? I never thought about it.

Actually now that I think about it, we use Object Insertion when something is inserted into vagina that it's not a Vibrator or Dildo... so it we are talking about the action "penetration" both apply , but if we talk about the device a wooden stick is not a dildo.
The same applies to Bondage Sex. If we use bondage sex as an action it can be achieved with both rope or duct tape, but at the same time rope bondage is not duct tape bondage.
An armbinder made of duct tape is not an armbinder (device) but both would apply if we talk about the action "restrain both hands toghether".

So probably "duct tape" is not an anal stretchers (device) but it can be applied to achieve "gaping" (action)Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 13:18
#1709 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 13:26
Yeah, it should be a device trait, that I'll also add under Anal Gaping, so no ducttape then. since you suggested the trait, I'll leave making the trait up to you, I can't remember any specific VN with images and this one doesn't have an exhentai tag for easy search.

Also, Vaginal Teasers are not good as is, way too vague. It works with Nipple Teasers because there aren't all that many devices for that, but when it comes to exciting the vagina, basically everything under Vibrator is designed for that. As such a trait with this name would be misused to hell and back. Something more specific, like vaginal / cltoris pump could work.Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 13:26
#1710 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 13:34
Something more specific, like vaginal / cltoris pump could work.
Can you change it into vaginal / cltoris pump then? Aliases are already there! :P

I mean I cannot propose "vaginal / cltoris pump", can you remove the aliases?Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 14:04
#1711 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 15:40
Deleted Vaginal Teasers and its aliases, so you can submit it now.

Also, on another note I'm not sure if anal / vaginal stretchers are the right words for these things. I mean if you try to google either of those, you'll get a whole lot of completely different things. Mostly some variation of speculum and inflatable plugs.Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 15:45
#1712 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 16:43
You can find them sometime in VN, but I don't know if they are a real thing in everyday life.
There are 2 solution in my opinion:
- deny the trait
- stick with a fictional name making it a bit more specific like "Garter belt stretchers" since garters are the pieces of fabric that hold stockings it seems appropriate
#1713 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 16:51
They exist in real life, I've seen them in a couple of (mostly Japnese) irl porn videos, no idea about the actual name.
#1714 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 16:54
I'm searching but no use...if they exist, why not leave a fictional name till we find it or until someone reading the thread help us :PLast modified on 2019-06-15 at 16:54
#1715 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 16:59
ok I'm getting closer (LOL for the real name):
- "Spread Labia Spreader Straps with Clamps" link
- "Pussy Spreader" also

Maybe "Spreader Straps with Clamps" with "Pussy Spreader" as alias could be fineLast modified on 2019-06-15 at 17:02
#1716 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 18:11
Good enough, approved this and Vaginal Pump.
#1717 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-15 at 18:59
Thank you!
#1718 by blue
2019-06-15 at 22:00
There are a number of traits in the VNDB that I have looked over and given a fair amount of thought to the suggestions that I’ve made to help improve them. Please look these over and see if any of them meet with approval.

Underweight - Suggesting that this trait be a child trait under Slim due to the reasoning that one cannot be underweight without first being ‘thin’, ‘slim’ or ‘skinny’ and then being considered overly so.

Lucky – This trait may be better placed under ‘Role’ instead of ‘Personality’ due to being more relevant to the (usually) involuntary chance affecting a character rather than being an actual part of their personality. At least in my opinion, the same is still true for this trait even if the character happens to be having their luck bolstered by their own conscious actions or the actions of other characters.

Opposite Gender Voiced - Should be placed under ‘Role’ instead of ‘Personality’ as this trait does not seem relevant to the character’s behavior or choice.

However, a possible argument against this could be during an unlikely instance of Ventriloquism, where it is possible for voice actors to be swapped in and out. I myself have yet to ever encounter this however.

String Ribbon Tie – Due to currently being the only ‘String Ribbon’ trait, String Ribbon Tie may very well find itself being used more broadly as a tag for String Ribbon Ties found on any part a character’s body (I have also found myself guilty of this). Examples tend to include being tied in the hair, on the chest, arm and leg.

Suggesting that this trait’s description be made more broad so that it can be assignable to more areas around the body than just the neck area. This will also help accommodate character entries that have already been given this trait because a String Ribbon Tie was found on their clothing, even if not necessarily tied to their neck.

Alternatively, a new type of String Ribbon trait can be created for those tied in the hair as well as anywhere else on the body but the neck.

Gorget – Requesting restoration of this trait. Gorget is a distinguishable armor trait that describes neck armor in general and can range from mere plate necklaces to outright articulated (plate or leather) armor covering the entire neck and upper chest area. From my experience, there are numerous characters (especially within the High Fantasy genre) that this trait can apply to.

Also requesting that this trait be accompanied with the alias “Neck armor” if possible.

If Gorget meets approval for restoration, I would also like to ask for its current description to be complemented with an additional description:

“The term ‘gorget’ was originally used to describe a linen band that women wore around their neck and head or the lower part of a simple chaperon hood during the medieval period. However, it came into later use as a word to describe armor worn around the neck, ranging from materials such as leather, chain mail and plated copper, iron or steel. In modern use, gorgets can also be made of plastic and are found in sports such as Fencing.

Grief – Requesting for the current description to be replaced with a more grammatically correct version:

“This character mourns someone and is struck by grief.”

Hand Fan – Although this trait is often seen with traditional clothing in cultures across the world, it is more of an item that is held in the hand rather than an article of clothing or accessory to be worn on the body.

Suggesting that this trait be relocated under Items or one of its child traits, such as Miscellaneous Items.

If possible, I would also like to ask for this trait to be accompanied by the English alias “Folding fan”, as well as the Japanese “Ougi” and its kanji spelling “扇”.

Garnet – This should be a child trait under Red due to itself being a variation of that color, similar to how Cyan and Teal are child traits under Blue and Green.
#1719 by warfoki
2019-06-15 at 23:24
That's quite a number of traits listed here, let's see what can I do about these...

Underweight - Makes sense. Done.

Lucky - Disagree with this. Yes, in real life misfortune / fortune is not consistent or reliable, it's just happenstance. But in a lot fiction, that is not the case: a lot of characters are consistently lucky / unlucky to the point that it partially defines who they are, and most characters tagged are of this variety. I can't think of a VN example of the top off my head, but a perfect example would be Qrow from RWBY. His special power is that he is a magnet for misfortune for himself and others around him. But since he knows this, he turns it into his advantage. For example, if he sees a place that would be good for ambush, he knows that there absolutely IS an ambush waiting, because that's the worse case scenario and with him the worst case scenario is all but guaranteed. If he is fighting on an abandoned rooftop, he expects the roof to collapse at the worst moment, his opponent doesn't. And so on. It defines the character, because his misfortune is consistent and reliable.

Opposite Gender Voiced - Ehh, it'd stick like sore thumb under Role as well, it doesn't really fit anywhere honestly. The reasoning for having it under Personality was that this pretty much almost always happens with female VAs voicing male characters who are very effeminate, usually traps. So it's indirectly suggestive of their personality. I know it's a stretch, but that's the best reasoning I can come up with to put it under anything.

String Ribbon Tie - We have WAY more than enough ribbon traits already. I could potentially just rename the trait into String Ribbon to make it a general use trait maybe? I have no idea how many of the currently tagged characters are tagged correctly based on the description and there's no way I can check 1300+ characters... I feel that change would make it too vague though... ugh, maybe I should just purge the damn thing...

Gorget - I wasn't the one who denied this, but my immediate issue is that the word "gorget" is avery little known one, so most people may not even find the trait. Adding some aliases should sort that out. Still, maybe I should rename it Neck Armor or something and leave gorget as an alias. Ehh, just restored for now with the description you've suggested.

Grief - Fixed.

Hand Fan - Makes sense I guess. Done.

Garnet - Again, makes sense. Done.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 01:04
#1720 by blue
2019-06-16 at 01:00
Thank you very much. I had at least made sure to spend a fair number of hours creating, editing and contemplating my list before submitting and I am glad to see that at least half of them meet your approval.

Lucky was a little tricky and despite my own suggestion, I was not in absolute agreement with it myself, only providing my own debatable perspective from common sense off the top of my head. Your response made a fair amount of sense and I understand that it may be best to leave this trait where it is.

I am well aware that this Opposite Gender Voiced applies in majority to effeminate trap characters and your own perspective and reasoning on this is quite understandable and appreciated.

String Ribbon Tie is definitely one of many as far it goes with ribbon traits. I myself would not advise the alternative option of creating another ribbon trait and hold to my main request for this trait to be made more flexible. Your idea on making the trait into general use is something I agree with, though renaming it, at least in my opinion, is still optional. Please reconsider from deleting this trait though, as I find its existence to be justified in the way that it is one of the more unique among the many existing ribbon traits and is useful in helping to discern string-like ribbons to ordinary ribbons. These are still only my opinions however, and the rest is wholly to your discretion.

At least in my opinion, the newly restored Gorget trait looks ready to use as it is, especially with its new list of aliases to help users locate the trait. Your consideration to swap around its main name and alias does make sense and I wouldn't disagree if you were to go through with it. In the end, thank you for restoring this trait. I'll see that a handful of characters make use of it in time.
#1721 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-16 at 01:25
I'm proposing some changes to existing traits:
- Gag should be also under BDSM
- Align the name of Mummification to his counterpart tag Erotic Mummification since "Erotic Mummification" seems a better name
- Align the name of Forniphilia to his counterpart tag Human Furniture since "Human Forniture" seems a better name to remeber rather than Forniphilia
- Naked Dogeza should be moved under BDSM like his counterpart tag Naked Dogeza
- Erotic Sexual Denial and Erotic Sexual Denial should have their name aligned to their counterpart tag Orgasm Denial or viceversa
#1722 by warfoki
2019-06-16 at 12:07
String Ribbon Tie - Well, removed the part that was referring to it being a necktie. But now it probably shouldn't be under necktie. Except Ribbon Tie IS under Necktie, with a staggering number of characters tagged and the exact same issue: only the description specifies the "neck" part, so it could potentially been misused, but there's no way in hell that I'll go through 6000+ entries to actually check. It should've been named Ribbon Necktie and String Ribbon Necktie respectively, but if I rename now, that might cause issues with mistagging. If I don't, and remove Ribbon Tie from under Necktie, then that is going to be super generic. Like, majority of female characters have a ribbon on their clothes somewhere. Plus it would make Ribbon Tie essentially the same as Ribbon, and there's a reason why Ribbon is a meta trait.

*sigh* I think the best I could do here is that I go back on my last edit, leave both Ribbon Tie and String Ribbon Tie as actual neckties and update their name to Ribbon Necktie and String Ribbon Necktie, respectively. Yes, this will make potential misapplications very obvious, but, well, those were misuses anyway and if I change the trait itself to accommodate for these potential misuses, then both traits will become so incredibly generic, that they'll be useless to the point that I might as well delete them. Except I can't really do that with a trait that has been used on 6000+ characters already. As such making the original trait more clear with a name-change and leaving the original intent intact is probably the least troublesome way to go here.

@Skorpiondeath:

Done. I've also put Vacuum Bed under Erotic Mummification. Seems to make sense. Also added example images for Human Furniture. As you can see I went with Orgasm Denial, simply because it is shorter. We have enough lengthy traits that cannot really be shortened (Consensual Group Sex of One Female and Several Males comes to mind...), might as well shorten what we can. Also added the aliases from the trait to the tag and vica versa.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 12:08
#1723 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-16 at 12:27
Thanks warfoki!
I was looking through the denied traits list and I found this one by accident: Used Condoms Exposition
The reason to the denial was:
We already have a very similar trait Condoms (Clothing). Too much overlap between those traits, for this one to be applicable anymore.

I think that the trait should be restored since I find the situation really similar to the one between Rope Bondage Harness being under clothes but also under BDSM -> Rope Bondage. They partially overlap too but it's fine in my opinion since this is the double inheritance mechanism of traits.

Used Condoms Exposition should be under BDSM as an humiliation practice while Condoms (Clothing) should be both under Clothes and under Used Condoms Exposition.
Maybe we can change Used Condoms Exposition to "Condom Exposition" since the used part is irrelevant.

@warfoki: switching topic - The last relevant bondage trait missing is "Metal Bondage", bondage achieved with metal handcuffs and chains... I'm unsure if you find it useful or not. Not that I'm going to add anymore bondage trait after that. Just wanted to know what do you think about it before proposing it.

Anal Grapeshot - should have "Vaginal Grapeshot" as an aliasLast modified on 2019-06-16 at 12:51
#1724 by warfoki
2019-06-16 at 13:30
Used Condoms Exposition - I guess that makes sense, reinstated.

Metal Bondage - Hmm, it's a bit more rare, but sure, why not.

Anal Grapeshot - No, why should it? It's ANAL grapeshot. If you think Vaginal Grapeshot is a thing enough to tag it, it should have its own trait.
#1725 by blue
2019-06-16 at 14:00
I appreciate your time and effort on the matter and I’m sorry that this tangled knot of a situation has proven to be such a pain.

I support the idea of making a U-turn on your recent edit of String Ribbon Tie to make it more specific instead of more broad. I am sure that the misuse of this trait was not only because it was the only String Ribbon Trait but also because it did not have the word "necktie" in its name. This would have clearly specified its intended use on first glance and deterred people from being tempted to try pushing the trait for more broader use just because it happened to be the only String Ribbon trait.

Optional Problem: However, this would still leave the problem where there would be no String Ribbon trait for use elsewhere aside from the neck. If the database can tolerate adding another ribbon trait, we could probably use a String Ribbon trait under Body Ribbon... but then it may also create the need to do the same for the child traits of Hair Ribbon which could turn into quite a nightmare. Overall, everything in this paragraph is just my further explored perspective on the matter. It may be best for you to disregard one or both of these problems entirely and just make String Ribbon Tie into a clear Necktie trait -- even if it's the only String Ribbon trait available. Users can resultingly turn to Body Ribbon to tag ribbons found on the body, String or not. Alternatively, you can also turn to your previous idea of purging this trait so that contributors will only need to use Ribbon Tie and Body Ribbon without suffering all of the String Ribbon entanglement.

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