Traits

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#2026 by savagetiger
2020-03-04 at 10:03
Hotblooded should have the alias 'Hot-blooded'
#2027 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-04 at 13:06
@savagetiger: done.
#2028 by beliar
2020-03-04 at 16:33
Maybe we should make it a ...Subject of > Health Related > Muteness, while "Silent" can become an alias of Taciturn.
I am in agreement. Seems like a simple "rename and move".

On the other hand, Tone Deafness has absolutely no reason to be under Disability. You don't say that people who cannot carry a tune are disabled or have health problems. Seems like the best place for it is under Subject of, after all.

And about t3314.780 I'm not against merging those traits but again it depends if we want similar synonyms to be merged or not.
While I agree that three different traits are really overdoing here, I propose to merge them into two:
Shopkeeper/Store Manager - someone who is either the owner of the shop or the person in charge of one.
Merchant/Vendor - someone who trades in commodities, in order to earn a profit. To be used for characters operating in a less rigidly organized structure than a shop. For example a medieval merchant hawking his wares in a bazaar, or a modern farmer selling his goods in a marketplace.Last modified on 2020-03-04 at 16:34
#2029 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-04 at 19:31
@beliar: I'm ok beliar do you want me to carry on those changes?
#2030 by beliar
2020-03-04 at 19:37
Yeah, do it. Though the merging of traits seems not to be in our capacity, unlike the merging of tags. Most likely we'll need to bug Yorhel for help regarding that.
#2031 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-04 at 19:53
@beliar: Tone Deafness is not a disability but it is a disorder check: link
#2032 by beliar
2020-03-04 at 20:05
While I cannot contest Wikipedia, I'm not sure the trait is used with the meaning that an individual is unable to recognize or produce music. Most likely those given the trait are simply bad at carrying a pitch or their singing sounds like a dying hyena.
Of course I cannot be sure, without playing those VNs.
As a compromise it can be added under "Health Related", rather than the Disability.
#2033 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-04 at 23:25
I agree. Probably linking the wikipedia article could help too.
#2034 by barfboy
2020-03-11 at 06:09
I think 'Sports Swimsuit' Sports Swimsuit needs to be changed. When I search for スポーティーな水着 I get absolutely no hits for this type of swimsuit (with only one fictional example of a single Rei Ayanami figure about halfway down the image page)
link

I'm going to guess that this is not a thing and it goes by another name in Japan.
#2035 by savagetiger
2020-03-11 at 06:16
スポーティーな水着 just means sporty swimsuit. That alias and the one in English could probably be removed. But the style is legit, it's the type used by competitive swimmers like in school clubs and the Olympics.
#2036 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-11 at 09:40
@barfboy: Sports swimsuit it's legit just search for "sport swimsuit" in google.
The problem here is that "y". A sporty swimsuit it's not related to school clubs and the Olympics.
#2037 by naiohoras
2020-03-11 at 12:51
the correct one is "supootsu mizugi" スポーツ水着 link

can we change the alias to that?

EDIT: looks like they call it as "fitness mizugi" フィットネス水着 in websites but I often hear them calling it スポーツ水着 too irl.

EDIT2: fitness mizugi フィットネス水着 is a type of sports mizugi ポーツ水着.Last modified on 2020-03-11 at 13:22
#2038 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-11 at 15:20
changed the alias, do I need to add フィットネス水着 too? They seem related to me.
#2039 by savagetiger
2020-03-11 at 17:32
^Should get rid of the english 'Sporty Swimsuit' alias too.
Not fitness mizugi though, that seems like a completely different style that isn't a one-piece.Last modified on 2020-03-11 at 17:32
#2040 by naiohoras
2020-03-11 at 19:06
if we're going to add fitness mizugi as an alias then we should consider that there are male version too link so... yeah, I don't think we should. I agree with savagetigerLast modified on 2020-03-11 at 19:06
#2041 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-11 at 19:27
Ok done. Fitness mizugi if needed should be proposed separately.
#2042 by barfboy
2020-03-13 at 22:29
"Idol of the School"
"Princess of the School"
(The terms are basically interchangeable)

This gets thrown around a lot. Examples include Fuyou Kaede Narumi Kousuke Suou Mitsuru and Kurahashi Ikumi but examples are numerous. I think it ought to have a trait but need help writing one. It can't be something people choose to add casually but is something a character needs to be expressly given in the VN.
#2043 by saeryen
2020-03-13 at 22:39
Any particular reason "Other Mystical Creature" hasn't been decided on yet? Or has it just not been looked at yet?
#2044 by savagetiger
2020-03-13 at 23:31
^Do you have an example of a character?
It doesn't fit under any of the generic traits we already have?
#2045 by saeryen
2020-03-14 at 00:55
^link

Since there’s no pic yet, here: link
#2046 by savagetiger
2020-03-14 at 01:14
Non-human is supposed to be a catch all trait for stuff that doesn't fit the other nature traits.
#2047 by saeryen
2020-03-14 at 03:03
^I see, thanks
#2048 by rampaa
2020-03-15 at 05:07
Naked (Not Sexually Involved):
Denied. It's not a rare instance that a character would appear naked but would have no sex scenes. Hell, even Higurashi's Satoko would apply here. It neither presents a particularly usefull info when you look at the character profile, nor can I imagine any person searching for characters based on the particular fact that they were showen naked for a moment, but gods help, they have no sex scenes. In other words I view it as completely useless.
I, for one, care whether or not I can see a gal naked, even if she has no h-scene. It's a good eye candy and such information has value for me. Tagging those characters with Not Sexually Involved does not do them any justice.

Also, no, it would not apply to Houjou Satoko. She was wrapped with a towel, she has no nude CS/CG.

Rape by Others:
Denied. Completely useless trait now that I have approved "Rape by Protagonist Only". That's the only things people care about: if the rape happens and if the protag is the only one doing it without sharing. When the rape is mixed or done only by others "vanilla" Rape trait is fully enough.
I 100% agree that people only care about whether or not the protagonist is the only one doing the deed. But hear me out, as is, one cannot ascertain whether Rape is being used because the tagger didn't know any better and used the most general trait or because the rape is done by non-protagonists. Didn't VNDB switch from "method 1" to "method 2" (t12970) for this exact reason? Isn't it the reason we have tags like Non-twin Heroine Sisters and Straight Lolicon now? My suggestion is in accordance with the method 2. I am proposing creating the necessary child traits and making Rape non-applicable.

Avoidable Monster Rape/Avoidable Rape by Protagonist/Avoidable Rape by Others/Avoidable Sex with Monsters:
Denied. We have completely entered the tag territory here. What is avoidable and what is not in a Vn is better expressed through tags than traits. it makes no sense to approve every avoidable/unavoidable trait, as no one cares or will be using them anyway.
I am not sure what do you mean by "tag territory". Shouldn't traits allow more specific things than tags since they are character specific? Also we do already have "Avoidable" traits (Avoidable Death, Avoidable Infidelity, Avoidable Murder, Avoidable Rape, Avoidable Sex with Others, Avoidable Suicide). Also tags are definitely doing a poor job (compared to traits) for "avoidable" things, because with tags, you cannot ascertain for which characters can those said deeds can be avoided and for which it cannot be.Last modified on 2020-03-15 at 05:30
#2049 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-15 at 12:32
@rampaa: the "method 2" (t12970) you are listing is for tags not for traits... I personally don't like the "avoidable" traits...
and they open up all the messy "Only Raped by Protagonist", "Only Raped by others", "Rape by others but ocasionally the protagonist"...what about reading the VN and discover it? Becuase those kind of traits in a complex and long VN will fill the character page with every possible outcome...

because with tags, you cannot ascertain for which characters can those said deeds can be avoided and for which it cannot be.
Tag territory I mean what's the purpose you wanna achieve? I usually think that someone wanna know if is possible to avoid rape/bestiality and extreme content all at once, not on a character basis... What if there are 5 character 2 with avoidable rape and 2 with rape by protagonist and 1 with rape by others...are you gonna read the VN or not? I think that the purpose of the tag is to sum up the VN globally, and in that is much better than all kind of "avoidable" and "only" traits.

Anyway when warfoki has some free time we can submit those back to him, and see what he has to say since he has the global idea on where things should go, so do not despair.

@saeryen: your traits got approved, beliar added a note to them...please do not abuse them because that was a difficult call and abusing them will lead to deletion.Last modified on 2020-03-15 at 12:36
#2050 by rampaa
2020-03-15 at 13:54
the "method 2" (t12970) you are listing is for tags not for traits...
That is incorrect. Warfoki specifically asks for non-applicable flag to be implemented for traits as well at t12507.4. "Method 2" does apply to traits.

...what about reading the VN and discover it?
That argument can be used for all traits and tags there is. If "you should discover that yourself" is a criterion, then let's get rid of all Ending tag tree. After all you should read the VN yourself and discover what kind of ending it has, right?

Anyway when warfoki has some free time we can submit those back to him, and see what he has to say
I am fine with that.

EDIT:
Pre-Story Virginity Lost to Protagonist should be changed to "Pre-Story Virginity Loss to Protagonist".Last modified on 2020-03-15 at 14:14