Difference between "Curtained" and "Intake" Traits

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#1 by rjmacx
2012-11-30 at 20:47
< report >I'm a little confused on the differences between i564 and i25. I thought I knew the difference, but when browsing the characters, some of them looked really similar. For example, I can't tell what would differentiate the hairstyles on c7797 or c7151 as intake but the ones on c9623 or c2530 as curtained. They look similar to me. I thought that intake was when the hair kind of sticks up to make a V shaped fold, but not used for the characters bangs, like c4058. And then curtained would be the same thing, but when used for bangs, like c10059. But obviously that's not right, since Intake is under the Bangs metatrait. Can someone explain the difference to me, since I feel pretty stupid.
#2 by gabezhul
2012-11-30 at 20:54
< report >You are perfectly right, it's just that someone messed up and used i564 instead of i25 for some weird reason. Maybe they somehow misunderstood the description?

You are also right about that i564 should not be under Bangs, it should be directly under Hairstyles.

Good find, hopefully Echo will fix these things up once he comes around.

EDIT: I just looked around and the original tag version was wrong as well. Intake is not created by the forelock, it's the divided hair on the top of the character's head that creates an arch while the forelock is in... well, front of it (duh).

The current trait description essentially refers to curtained forelocks that rise higher than the forehead, which is most certainly NOT intake hairstyle.
#3 by rjmacx
2012-11-30 at 21:01
< report >Okay, thanks for clearing things up. I was trying to figure out which trait to use when tagging and I got confused. Also, does that mean that characters under the Curtained trait like c741 or c8573, whose hairstyles aren't making that little scoop thing, would be more suited to i1091 or i1095?
#4 by gabezhul
2012-11-30 at 21:07
< report >Holy shit, this is actually a pretty serious mistagging issue! I checked the first thrity characters under i564, and only five of them had actual intakes! FIVE! That's a 83% error ratio!

All the others either had curtained, rising or just simply divided forelocks! I mean look at something like c7717 or c7061! Does that look like intake hair to you?

Seriously, what the hell people?! Are you blind?! 0_o?!
#5 by rjmacx
2012-11-30 at 21:13
< report >Haha okay, I got it. That's what I was thinking of when I suggested the middle-part and side bangs trait, but then I read the description for curtained hair and was afraid it was redundant. Hopefully now that there are more traits to choose from, the number of intakes listed will more accurately reflect the number of characters that actually have them.
#6 by doki
2012-11-30 at 22:37
< report >Ah, it's great that's cleared up; I saw a lot of curtained hairstyles tagged as intakes and thought I was doing something wrong.

I'm a bit confused what i1091 is referring to. Does side bangs refer to slightly longer bangs that fall to either side of the face such as c814, parted bangs that aren't curtained such as c7608, or bangs that are swept to either side (as opposed to being straight from hairline to brow)?
#7 by rjmacx
2012-11-30 at 22:49
< report >What I was thinking of when I suggested the trait, at least, covered all three. It might be better to split it into two traits - "Side swept bangs" for characters like c814, and "Parted to the side" for characters like c7608. I was unsure at the time how many characters would fit under the trait, but after more consciously looking at characters' bangs, there seems to be quite a few so maybe two separate traits would be better after all. That's just my opinion, though.
#8 by doki
2012-11-30 at 23:06
< report >I agree that it may be too many variations for one trait.
Maybe a "Parted Bangs" trait with Curtained as a child trait? Then leave Side Bangs as bangs on either side of the face. To me, "side bangs" does not imply either of the other meanings.

I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of a trait for side-swept bangs; some character's bangs are barely diagonal.
#9 by rjmacx
2012-11-30 at 23:26
< report >Yeah, that makes sense to me. Then "Parted bangs" would be characters like c5185 or c5447, and "Side bangs" would refer to characters like c5485, with their bangs completely on either side. That leaves characters like c5190, c1363, and c4643, whose bangs don't appear to have a part, but are curved in the same direction. I've run into a good number who fit so it would be preferable to me to have some sort of trait for it, especially since I find it attractive so it would be nice to be able to search for it lol. However I'm not sure if "Side bangs" would really describe it.
#10 by doki
2012-11-30 at 23:53
< report >Agree on parted bangs and sideswept.

When I think of side bangs I think of something like c4318, the side bangs being the pieces of hair by her ears, e.g. bangs that aren't on the forehead.
But that's just what I think of as "side bangs". I think if c5485 is cited as an example then there won't be any confusion.
#11 by takata
2012-12-01 at 01:44
< report >Ugh... this is insane. @.@

I'm against some of these hairstyle traits existing because they are either not significant, too common, or too subjective. "Not significant" means that no-one would care whether or not a character has that particular hairstyle. "Too subjective" means that some people will think a character doesn't have a certain hairstyle, while other people will think they do.

If you really do think these traits are objective, significant and not overly common, then at least make them understandable for other people. >.<

Not everyone will be sure what a "forelock" is or where the "hairline" is, so USE PICTURES. For some people English is a second language, so even if your description is accurate they will still find it difficult to understand.

Since hairstyles seem a bit difficult, you should include links to strong examples, weaker examples and counter-examples. ...well not too many pictures. Just enough to show exactly what it is, and some common mistakes.

For example, for the intake hairstyle trait:
Example1 - A strong example, since the intakes are huge.
Example2 - A weaker example, since the intakes are small. (...this is an intake hairstyle, right? Someone forgot to add the intake trait? O.o?)
Example3 - A counter-example. This is NOT an intake hairstyle because the "intake" is too far forward. In fact, it's curtained.
Example4 - Another counter-example. Even though the supposed "intake" is huge, it's too far forward, therefore it's curtained.

Since the one who created the trait should have the best idea of what exactly it refers to, they should be the ones to add the pictures, so I'll leave that to you rjmacx.

I'll probably suggest this be included in the guidelines. People like you read the guidelines, right?Last modified on 2012-12-01 at 01:45
#12 by rjmacx
2012-12-01 at 04:05
< report >I didn't create the intake or curtained traits, so as for those, I can't change anything. I was just unclear about when to use them. If you're talking about the side bang trait, which is the only trait (relevant to the conversation) that I've submitted for approval, I'd be happy to find some examples to add to the description. But like I was posting about earlier, I'm wondering if it should perhaps be changed to something like "parted bangs" and another trait, to more accurately describe the feature and avoid confusion. Or simply have the name changed to "parted bangs" and forget splitting it in two, since maybe side-swept bangs are too rare. I apologize if I overlooked something glaringly obvious in the guidelines; I'm just trying to clear up some of my confusion regarding these traits, which is why I made the thread.
#13 by takata
2012-12-01 at 04:37
< report >No, there's nothing in the guidelines about this... we should also be careful not to bloat the guidelines.

Since the intake and curtained hair traits weren't created recently, I guess anyone can suggest changes to their description.

I'm just suggesting to use enough pictures in the trait descriptions when you make them (Side Bangs and Parted in Middle). It might also help to draw on the picture with Windows Paint (or a similar program) to precisly highlight the trait in the linked picture.

Since I am just getting super-confused even after reading the thread several times, I can't contribute much more, sorry.Last modified on 2012-12-01 at 04:38
#14 by rjmacx
2012-12-01 at 05:50
< report >I see, thanks for the tip. I guess because where I live the appearance "parted in the middle" etc. is so commonly known, I didn't even think it needed any further explanation. ^^;

I think it would be appropriate to change the description of the Side Bangs trait to the following. I'm definitely no expert or anything, I just casually thought of it. If anyone has anything to add, that would be nice. (I hope I don't screw up the formatting codes...)

New name: Parted to Side
New location: Traits > Hair > Hairstyle
Description: This character has hair that is parted to the side. The hair is parted off center, creating bangs or a fringe that is uneven. Examples include Fate/Stay Night's [url=/c37]Ilya[/url] and Steins;Gate's [url=/c6496]Moeka[/url]. If the hair is parted on center, use the [url=/i1095]Parted in Middle[/url] trait.

I also added on a bit to the "Parted in Middle" trait's description while I was at it.

Description: This character has hair that is parted in the middle. The hair is parted on center, creating bangs or a fringe that is even on both sides. Examples include Da Capo's [url=/c4017]Miharu[/url] and Fate/Stay Night's [url=/c34]Rin[/url]. If the hair is parted off center, use the [url=/i1091]Parted to Side[/url] trait.

Lastly here's a suggestion for the Intake trait, it was pretty hard to describe so it's just rough, someone else may want to add on to it.

New location: Traits > Hair > Hairstyle
Description: This character's hair has one or more [url=http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fja.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25E3%2582%25A4%25E3%2583%25B3%25E3%2583%2586%25E3%2583%25BC%25E3%2582%25AF_%2528%25E9%25AB%25AA%25E5%259E%258B%2529&act=url]intakes[/url]. An intake is created by an arch in the character's hair that folds over itself, creating an upside-down V shape. Examples include Da Capos II's [url=/c4054]Yume[/url] and Tsukihime's [url=/c74]Arcueid[/url]. If the intake is used as the character's bangs, use the [url=/i25]Curtained[/url] trait.

I don't know if a mod actually wants to make any of these changes, but hopefully these will be useful for at least getting an idea of what changes to do.
#15 by echomateria
2012-12-03 at 21:28
< report >Best idea is to link to existing characters entries in the database like you did here, images hosted by other sites may disappear one day, but these will not and linking to the character entries instead of images themselves guarantees that even if we update the image one day, link will still work.

Changed i564, i1091 and i1095 as requested since no one objected since this suggestion is made.

Nice work.


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