Mindbreak tag (reviewed)

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#1 by knightssect
2012-12-08 at 18:53
< report >It has come to my attention that that Mindbreak tag was deleted about 5 weeks ago, and I would like to have a discussion about reinstating the tag.

Reasoning:
There is a big difference between the sexual slavery tag, and a Mindbreak tag. For example in Captive Market you would implement the sexual slavery tag, because the characters eventually become sexual slaves. However, you could also implement the Mindbreak tag which represents the point were there mental stability and resistance breaks. However, a psychological break is not necessary for a person to gain the sexual slavery tag.
Although it’s a reasonable argument that the Mind Break tag is part of the sexual slavery tag. It seems a bit vague to that it resides in the sexual slavery tag, as it focuses primarily on the moment were the characters psychological resistance, and sanity breaks changing their personality.

I would love to know your thoughts on the matter.
#2 by azusa-nakano
2012-12-08 at 20:35
< report >Yeah I posted it but I didn't bother to appeal.
And mind break is rape until you want it, I saw vn's with the sexual slavery tag WITHOUT rape tags so I think it should be added for sure
#3 by PabloC
2012-12-08 at 23:38
< report >Hmm, the description was wrong - raping and brainwashing the girl until she gets enslaved by pleasure and tuns into a mindless nympho is pretty much what g219 is about.

The actual mind break tag would be valid, but with a different description and placement. It's not about turning into a sex slave - that's only one of the possible results (quite a crude one at that). Protagonist in v10636 experiences various rape-induced psychological effects - from becoming a sex-slave up to turning into a rapist herself, those are all different kinds of mind break.
I'm also not entirely sure if we should keep this tag as a strictly sexual one. Rape is not the only thing that can break one's mind, death of an important person or other traumas can do that as well. It can be a child tag of g147 instead of/in addition to g382. g219 should be a separate tag, as it's not always related with mind break.

I suggest the following description:
"One or more characters in this VN is a subject of mind break - a severe and/or continuous trauma* is too much for him/her to handle and causes mental breakdown. Possible effects include, but aren't limited to:
- becoming a nymphomaniac/sex-slave.
- turning into a lifeless husk.
- snapping and going on a rampage."
*) "trauma" can be switched to "sexual abuse" to make it a specific, sexual tag.
#4 by knightssect
2012-12-09 at 01:09
< report >I'm in agreement with your argument that mind break is not explicitly sexual, so I don't know if it would go in the sexual category. I also like the description, although I would leave out the rampage part as it could confuse people.

I am However, convinced that there is a big difference between their description of sexual slavery, and what mind break is. Mind break is a very destiguisible point, in the VN were the character breaks. "conditioning and brainwashing." does not do enough for this tag.
#5 by abyssaleros
2012-12-09 at 11:57
< report >Azusa the problem with the sexual slavery tag was already shown by me in other threads e.g. t3043 especially #18 but it seems of no interest here.

And I concur with Pabloc in #3 and Knightssect in #4 that a tag "mindbreak" shall not be sexuallized, as this would exclude most variations of mindbreak.

A bit of the way:
A few month ago I proposed a tag called Slutification g1348 which was denied.
This tag was partly a form of sexual mindbreak, but as this tag should have also covered the 'corruption' of the girl's behaviour out of here own will, it is in core of another nature.
Corruption shall not be understand as a from of moralizing.
But I intended it for plot (as far as in nukiges possible^^) related behaviour changes of the heroines in regard to their sexual drive.

So back to topic:
Knightsect does in #1 the usual error that comes along with the actual sexual slavery tag because of its misleading link to wikipedia, as I pointed out before e.g example.

Sexual slavery in visual novels and mostly in nukiges comes commonly in the form of Chouykou which is a form of D&S, which clearly lets Azusa discover that there are a lot of novels tagged with sexual slavery that do not have rape.

So someone who is interrested in reading novels with this stuff has a hard luck to sort out all the wrong listings, because someone tought: "O there is rape and a slave market - tagging it sexual slavery would be fine".
In my eyes this is wrong, as the sexual slavery tag shall be solely for Choukyou which is its alias on top of that, and is listed under Darker Sexual Contents and not under Drama g147 which would be more suitable for the examination with the evil form of sexual slavery.

As you cleary see after my wall of text the mindbreak tag needs a finer honing out to be reaccepted and it shall be introduced under Drama not under sexual content, otherwiese it stays dead as the slutification tag because the people in command here have no tendency to think beyond the need for their usual prefered novels.Last modified on 2012-12-09 at 12:30
#6 by PabloC
2012-12-09 at 15:07
< report >
the people in command here have no tendency to think beyond the need for their usual prefered novels.
And how the hell are they supposed to make tags for stuff they have no idea about? Try to make clear tag descriptions that will be understandable for everyone, not just fans of the genre. The reasons for denying both g1519 and g1348 are explicitly stated - their descriptions were just wrong/unclear. -.-'
My suggestions:

1) Mindbreak:
I'll leave the "snap" part, as mindbreaking and turning into a yandere isn't that uncommon. Slightly modified:

- A child tag of g147. Name: "Mindbreak". Description:
"One or more characters in this VN are subjects of mind break - a severe and/or continuous trauma is too much for him/her to handle and causes mental breakdown. Possible effects include, but aren't limited to:
- becoming a nymphomaniac/sex-slave.
- turning into a lifeless husk.
- snapping/going insane."

2) Sexual Slavery:
There's a problem here. This tag seems to mix two situations - one is the unwilling girl raped and trained until she turns into a mindless sex-slave, the second is a form of mostly consensual SM role-play. I'm not quite sure about the latter version being the more common though (but well, I'm not too familiar with that genre). I'd suggest something like that:

- Leave g219 where it is. Remove the Choukyou alias. It's description can be left as is or modified to something like that:
"This VN contains scenes where unwilling character(s) are brainwashed (usually through rape), until they start to enjoy it and turn into mindless sex-slaves."

- A new tag under g1117. Name: "Choukyou". Description:
"This VN contains scenes of S&M play, where the M character gets trained to be S character's pet. No matter how brutal it may look, the M character isn't entirely opposed to it, and he/she enjoys it (even if a bit reluctantly/subconsciously at first)."

3) Slutification:
I'm not entirely sure what you wanted with this one, so correct me if I'm wrong:

- A child tag of g1199. Name: "Sexual corruption of characters". Optional alias: "Slutification". Description:
"One or more characters in this game are subjects to sexual corruption. Their sex-drive becomes abnormal and they turn into insatiable nymphomaniacs. This can be a result of a sex training or rape, but can also happen spontaneously, without any traumas involved."

How about that?Last modified on 2012-12-09 at 15:09
#7 by abyssaleros
2012-12-09 at 15:26
< report >I would separate sexual slavery totally from sexual contents if it is intended to refer to real slavery in any form as this would fit more the theme of drama as prostitution, child abuse and so on.
But as Choukyou IS an alias for sexual slavery it was used in the past by most taggers to refer to the training of someone to be a "sex slave" in D&S scenarios which does not mean that this is always depicted as willingly in the first place. At some point the resistance breaks or the process of the character's corruption reaches it's goal so that the recipient does the sexual acts willingly.
Wherin in "real sexual slavery" the recipient is never ever at any point to be called a willingly one.

And yes, you got me right with slutification, but my intion is not to reissue it.
But if someone is interessted into the psychological discussion of slutification: LinkLast modified on 2012-12-09 at 15:49

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