Tags suggestions/fixes

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#2451 by Yorhel
2021-01-26 at 14:51
< report >The reason it's not coming soon is because it's ill defined. If we can get a consensus on a sensible definition, I can implement it fast enough.
#2452 by zakashi
2021-01-26 at 14:59
< report >What are the problems with the definition exactly?Last modified on 2021-01-26 at 16:51
#2453 by beliar
2021-01-26 at 15:24
< report >You still failed to define what "Has Route" is. What about the difference between main heroines and side heroines? What about the characters that only end up with the protagonist as part of a harem route? What about characters that only have short joke endings with the protagonist? What about the characters you only can get a bad end with? What about VNs with multiple protagonists who all have separate romantic interests? What about VNs where the protagonist can pursue a relationship with a few different women, but doesn't end with any of them in the end? The feature still doesn't exist, because we still don't have a definition for "Route" or "Hero(ine)" everyone agrees with.
#2454 by zakashi
2021-01-26 at 16:19
< report >Thanks for replying, I'll throw my two cents.

What about the difference between main heroines and side heroines?

Well, can you date them and end the game with them? Then both of them have routes, one example I can think of is Tsujidou-san no Jun'ai Road, there's one side character who has a route much shorter than the main three, but that's still a route, and most guidelines you'll find will properly address them as routes. If the character is "main" or "side" is already pointed out in their entries.

What about the characters that only end up with the protagonist as part of a harem route?
Good point, I suppose having a "Has Route(Harem)" and a "Has route(Solo)" "tags" would be sufficient. Or(I don't know if this would be practical, but here's my idea) have sub-labels to the "Has Route(name subject to change)" label, and when you click on "Has Route(name subject to change)" you'll see such details being shown.

What about characters that only have short joke endings with the protagonist?

About the joke part, I think, this doesn't happen often right? I think when the game has that different of a scenario, it's more proper to discuss how to apply those games to the "tag" (after the "tag" was approved) then the other way around, some joke endings might be eligible, others might not.
And about the "short" part, most people seem to agree that a route implies a different storyline, so if it's just an epilogue, it's not a route.

What about the characters you only can get a bad end with?

Yeah good point, I think it would be necessary to have a "Has Route(Bad ending)" "tag" since people are concerned with this. Or the sub-label solution.

What about VNs with multiple protagonists who all have separate romantic interests?
I honestly do not see this as a problem, but since you're saying it is, then having a system that pair them up with their SO in their entries would solve this. Or the sub-label solution showing which character they are paired up to.

What about VNs where the protagonist can pursue a relationship with a few different women, but doesn't end with any of them in the end?

Doesn't this fall on the bad endings? Actually, now that you said this, there's the case of Kurisu in Steins;Gate, the MC pursues her but doesn't quite catch her at the end, it's left a bit ambiguous, and it's no bad ending, yeah this one is tough. Sub-labels again :D
#2455 by ule-wu
2021-01-30 at 22:12
< report >#2443 Regarding Non-explicit Nudity Only. I suggested this tag originally as 'Sexual content without sex'. The intention was to have a tag for VNs that have Sexual Content but do not contain any sex scenes.

So yes, I agree. The tag name is not matching its description because explicit or non-explicit never was the issue and tag example and tagged VNs are definitely with explicit content.
Just to quote Image Flagging Guidelines 'Explicit,Tame - No sexual acts, but the visible, naked nipples still upgrades this image from suggestive to explicit.', and I definitely see some nipples in their pictures.

I would suggest to change the tag name to 'Nudity only'. Moving it to No Sexual Content would defy its purpose.Last modified on 2021-01-31 at 13:11
#2456 by username15903
2021-02-02 at 08:34
< report >About the 'protagonist with a face' tag. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a 'protagonist without a face' tag instead. From what I've seen most protagonists have faces. That way, there will be less tagging to do.
#2457 by hybrid-being
2021-02-03 at 22:33
< report >I created Stock Graphics tag with child tags Stock Backgrounds and Stock Sprites, and only then noticed Repurposed Art tag. Maybe it would be better to put Stock Graphics as a child of Repurposed Art? Or maybe Stock Backgrounds and Stock Sprites directly?
But then again, while, technically, they are both third-party graphics, Stock graphics are not the same thing as Repurposed graphics, are they?

Would like to hear any opinion on this.Last modified on 2021-02-05 at 10:28
#2458 by kancas
2021-02-03 at 23:00
< report >I think Bleep Censor could be changed to a more general audio censorship tag, a lot of games are using small muted sections for censorship instead of bleeps.
#2459 by Mrkew
2021-02-04 at 00:44
< report >I don't agree. Muting in the middle of the word is very different from an annoying high-pitched noise in your ears. IIRC someone in this thread suggested Uncensored Obscenities, but it was shot down with "So... pretty much every eroge made after 2000s? Pass...", even though uncensored audio is very rare in non-nukige. Read like 10 games released last year which had bleeps, and the most of the rest had muted middle ん.Last modified on 2021-02-04 at 00:52
#2460 by kancas
2021-02-04 at 01:54
< report >Yeah that's me, I was trying to suggest this as an alternative since it's hard to look up completely uncensored games now that this database: link is dead
#2461 by zakashi
2021-02-04 at 02:28
< report >I believe there will never be a "Has route" function then since "there needs to be a discussion" before but nobody wants to have said discussion and that's it.
#2462 by shinytentacool
2021-02-04 at 04:05
< report >I think instead of 'has route' there could simply be information on each ending. But that information is already easily available by looking up a walkthrough.
#2463 by Yorhel
2021-02-04 at 06:17
< report >@zakashi: Which, to me, is a strong indicator that not enough people care.
#2464 by ule-wu
2021-02-06 at 12:21
< report >@zakashi
Funny that you mention "Tsujidou-san no Jun'ai Road", someone recently told me, that "any ending with a side character or short 'route' is not a route..." Really? Poor Saeko :´(

Google "Route" -> "a way or course taken in getting from a starting point to a destination."
For VNs, would it not be: A route defines the path that leads to a specific ending? The how you reach it and maybe the how long (est.) it will take you to reach it?
Is that not what walkthroughs actually do (and your gps/navigation system)?

Is it really necessary to cram plot, endings and relationships in a definition for routes? I mean if you can get it done and it is easy to understand and use by the community, go ahead and propose definitions. But that seems unlikely or not?

I agree with #2462. Maybe focus on what information would really be useful?
I see talk about "harem", "solo" and such sublabels that define endings.
Route describes path of the plot -> plot leads to xyz ending -> ending contains xyz relationships.

It's not easy sure, as already mentioned in #2453 relationships might or might not change during a plot, tagging all changes is not impossible but how would that work, how useful would it be and so on.
So maybe focus on creating an easy to understand concept on how to label endings and/or resulting relationships at the end.
Protag A
Has relationship ending Romance ([Main Char A]), Friendship ([Main Char A]), Romance ([Side Char A]), Friendship ([Side Char A]), Harem ([Main Char A], [Side Char A])...

Sure, it would be more precise to define and link relationships and endings as separate entry, define all kinds of endings for each char (Death ending, Bad ending, Bad ([Main Char A]) ending etc...).

Just a thought…
#2465 by Ninius
2021-02-20 at 08:26
< report >Lmao look at the tag moderation queue
#2466 by Yorhel
2021-02-20 at 08:45
< report >lol. Looks like there was a bug in the permission check when submitting a new tag. So good we have people to test every aspect of the site. :D
#2467 by Mrkew
2021-02-28 at 11:26
< report >Please add "insert song" as an alias for Multiple Songs.
#2468 by ginseigou
2021-03-07 at 07:28
< report >Classic Tsundere Heroine
Starts tsuntsun (cranky, violent and possibly violent) towards the protagonist (and possibly everyone else), due to some reason or another, and over the course of the game falls in love with him/turns deredere (lovestruck).

Change the description of tag to the one from trait Classic Tsundere and do the same to the other tsundere tags.Last modified on 2021-03-07 at 07:34
#2469 by jacopo
2021-03-11 at 11:55
< report >Taciturn
This character is physically able to speak, but prefers to remain silent because of his serious/sullen personality or mental affliction.
Just a minor thing, but "his" should probably be "their", since this trait can apply to any gender.

Mature, Father Complex, Siscon
For consistency, "his/her" should also be changed to "their".
#2470 by Ninius
2021-03-21 at 14:55
< report >Um why the heck was Non-twin Hero Brothers deleted? There's similar tag for heroines too (Non-twin Heroine Sisters).Last modified on 2021-03-21 at 14:56
#2471 by beliar
2021-03-21 at 21:49
< report >Well, I thought that deleted Brother tag is not very useful, and would just be one more underused tag to clutter the db. However I can see that Non-twin Heroine Sisters is pretty heavily used. So, I suppose it's harmless enough to approve.
#2472 by Ninius
2021-03-21 at 23:42
< report >How many novels does there have to be for a tag to be called useful?
#2473 by skorpiondeath
2021-03-22 at 00:15
< report >Basically ninius we mods have different opinion about that too...
Some consider a tag useful the more occurences it has, I personally consider a tag usuful even if it has few occurences since it's helpful to find niche VN, expecially in the sexual tags department.
The problem is that as today not every tag is useful. Some tags are just legacy tags from an era when traits did not exist. Sometime they keep being added while they are more into the trait range of action.
For example Heroine with Armpit Hair or Heroine with Kimono tags, can be easily replaced with Kimono or Armpit Hair over the particular occurences of the characters.

That's just my personal opinion but while traits are in the range of characters, tags should be more into the range of what the VN is about.
For example having a VN with 5 character tagged with "Kimono" just tells me those character wear a kimono during the course of the VN, but at the same time it doesn't tell me in how many scenes those character wear a kimono, so if I'm a kimono fetishist I could not find what I'm searching for. At the same time adding to the VN Heroine with Kimono or "Protagonist with Kimono" just adds 0 info to that VN since I can already check characters to check if they have a "kimono" trait listed between their list (obviously excluding old VN without characters list...).
The tag instead could help find VN with high quantity of scene with character with kimonos involved something traits cannot do. I would gladly transform Heroine with Kimono into something like "Kimono": this VN contains at least 50% of scenes where characters wear kimonos. At least at that point the tag could be useful, many tags as today overlaps traits territory and keep the old "hero/heroine/protagonist/support" form that is basically obsolete if you consider that a character can be listed as "protagonist/main character/side character" and "male/female" instead of "hero/heroine".Last modified on 2021-03-22 at 19:40
#2474 by hybrid-being
2021-03-24 at 20:44
< report >On the topic of usefulness, I see that Stock Graphics tag was approved while Stock Sprites and Stock Backgrounds were not.
I understand that having three tags for this might be an overkill, but i'd argue that having a separate Stock Sprites tag would be beneficial, as use of stock sprites might be seen as a more prominent feature of the VN than stock backgrounds or other graphics (would be useful, for example, if someone wants to avoid VNs with stock sprites, but fine with stock backgrounds).

I envisioned Stock Graphics to be an umbrella unassignable tag, but maybe have it be an assignable one (as it was approved) with Stock Sprites as a child?
And Stock Backgrounds could be an alias for Stock Graphics.Last modified on 2021-03-24 at 20:47
#2475 by lutra-lovegood
2021-03-26 at 04:21
< report >Can we get more dom and sub tags? Right now there's Submissive Protagonist and Fem Dom but that leaves out both male and female subs

Dom Protag, Male Dom, Male Sub, Fem Sub, Fem Dom Male Sub, Fem Dom Fem Sub, Male Dom Male Sub, Male Dom Fem SubLast modified on 2021-03-26 at 04:21