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Tags suggestions/fixes

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#826 by silence
2016-03-07 at 07:43
< report >It's not a matter of cliche. If there are just two or three VNs with that stuff, I guess it would be strange to create such a tag for them. You can come up with thousands of similar tags and make a trash from the database.
#827 by traumatizer
2016-03-07 at 18:55
< report >The images in Cum on Food should be fixed.
#828 by dk382
2016-03-08 at 00:56
< report >Please consider renaming Random Sex Scenes to "Spontaneous Sex Scenes"

That's not what "random" means. Sorry, people constantly using that word incorrectly is bit of a pet peeve of mine.
#829 by nutellafan
2016-03-12 at 15:11
< report >Some ending tags such as Friendship Ending and Pregnancy Ending are listed under "Content" instead of "Technical". Not sure if this is correct or incorrect (I'd think all ending tags should be listed under Technical since the majority already have been and the route tags are) but wouldn't it be better for them all to be under one category?
#830 by barfboy
2016-03-19 at 16:50
< report >I created two new tags
Nude Filter
Sprite Patch

Nude filter may go through. Sprite patch may not. I remember some discussion about adding the 'nude patch' tag long ago that questioned whether it was useful because many fan patches exist and can't easily be kept track of. So I added that 'Sprite Patch' is for patches made by the official game creators.

Nude Filter would be for games like Yumekoi ~Yume Miru Mahou Shoujo to Koi no Jumon~ which simply has the option to turn heroine's clothing off built into the game.

I'm also trying to cover Juukishi Cutie ☆ Bullet which has an official patch available to turn heroine's clothing off (it creates a button in the option's menu to toggle clothing on or off and is not a permanent feature) and Zettai Junshu ☆ Kozukuri Kyokashou Paradise!! ~Aa, Subarashiki Haramasekai~ which has an official patch to turn all the girl's sprites into monster girls (like before it creates a button in the option menu to toggle monster girl sprites on/off) or Imouto Style which has an official 'underwear' patch that changes the sprites (again on or off toggle in the option menu) to various forms of 'underwear'.

There are probably many examples of official patches like these.Last modified on 2016-03-19 at 16:54
#831 by savagetiger
2016-03-22 at 03:10
< report >Kissing Scene shouldn't be under sexual content.
#832 by vargr1105
2016-04-03 at 10:32
< report >I would like to suggest a new tag. "Point System" under Style > Design > Choices.

This refers to VNs that use a points/score/tally system to determine which route the player gets.

Individual choices have a numerical value associated with a specific route. At a certain point the totals are tallied and the game is locked to the route with the highest score. If there is a general "bad ending" the player will get it if by the time of tallying there is no route which has accrued a sufficient high score to allow entry.

Examples of VNs who use a point system are " Lamento -Beyond the Void-" link and "Yume Miru Kusuri" link .

I feel this tag is necessary and useful for two reasons.

First, the playing experience of such VNs feels different from the usual "flowchart" VNs even on a gut level. (personally I did not know of this mechanic previously, but I did notice something felt different when playing the two titles I mentioned).

Second, and sadly, this system of route determination seems to lend itself more easily to continuity flaws, sequential mistakes and dialogue flows who seem to assume certain event that didn't happen actually took place, or vice-versa.

Alternate titles for this tag could be: "Choice Point System", "Choice Tally System", "Choice Tally", "Tallied Choices", etc.Last modified on 2016-04-03 at 10:33
#833 by gabezhul
2016-04-03 at 10:44
< report >Dude, about 90% of all romance eroges use a point/flag system like that. It's a general rule of thumb that we do not approve tags that could be applied to a vast majority of the titles in the DB and instead tag the exceptions.Last modified on 1970-01-01 at 00:00
#834 by vargr1105
2016-04-03 at 11:43
< report >Really? I was under the impression, mostly from what I read on the VNDB forums, that what was referred as "point system" was not VN mainstream, and that a lot of folks didn't seem to know about that system.

I fully understand, and knew about, your rule of thumb for tag suggestions. So please don't get aggravated or assume I was trying to waste your time. Just chalk my sincere suggestion to personal ignorance...I've only been in this scene of half a year, after all.

Pray tell, what does the "flag" on the "point/flag system" definition stand for? That's also a new one for me and google doesn't show me any results for that term. I am assuming "point" and "flag" aren't just simply equivalents.
#835 by gabezhul
2016-04-03 at 12:16
< report >Okay, here's the quick and dirty explanation: It all comes down to programming logic.

A point-system uses numerical variables to decide on which route/scenario the player ends up on. This system is a characteristic of practically all eroge with multiple routes out there.
These games operate under the following formula: First there is a common route which have choices. The choice you pick increases certain variables (points) while possibly also lowering others. These variables often directly relate to the romanceable characters. At the end of the common route the engine looks at these variables, sees which one is the highest and then you get on the route of the corresponding character.
Examples of such games include Yume Miru Kusuri, Kanon, Edelweiss, Yukizakura, Galaxy Angel, To Heart 2 and Canvas 2 ~Akaneiro no Palette~, just from the top of my head.

Flags are also variables, but they are binary. You can either trigger them, or you don't. Games that rely just on flags are rarer but not unheard of. They usually include less but more important choices that directly impact which route you get (e.g; Grisaia no Kajitsu), or have tons of choices that impact the immediate progression of the story(e.g; Fate/Stay Night). They are considerably rarer and are much closer to the classic "choose your own adventure book" feel as the reader makes much more direct choices without intermediaries.

The most typical system, however, is a mixture of the two, whereas you have the point system but it also has a few flags you need to trigger if you want to end up on a specific route. For example, you might have picked all of girl A's events and have enough points to trigger her route, but at a critical choice a few hours back you picked the wrong answer and thus the flag isn't activated, meaning you cannot enter her route after all. In these cases the game either gives you a bad ending, or defaults you to another route.
I am not going to give examples here, because as I said, it's about 90% of all VNs (practically any pure VN that is not a kinetic novel or doesn't have a linear plot). In fact, this is so common that in otaku-media someone mentioning "raising a flag" and "getting affection points" are short-hands for "this character plays eroge".

Also note that flags and points can be either very abstract (unseen variables or an innocent looking choice at the beginning of the story that has effects on the entire scenario) or very direct (visible affection meters and specific prerequisites, such as befriending another character or having another character in your party, if it's a hybrid title), but the underlying system is always the same: You have either numerical variables or you have binary switches.Last modified on 1970-01-01 at 00:00
#836 by silence
2016-04-04 at 15:48
< report >100% Completion Bonus should be under Unlockable Bonus Content, I think.
#837 by vargr1105
2016-04-04 at 16:05
< report >Thank you very much for the clear explanation and the linked examples, gabezhul.

Rather than "quick and dirty", I think this information is very useful for newbies and I would suggest turning it into a sticky or something similar. It may really help mold the expectations of someone coming into these types of games for the first time, and often expectations + first experience is what determines if one enjoys a new thing sufficiently to wish to pursue it further.

Speaking for myself, I have felt something akin to cognitive dissonance about the narrative/game progression of some of the VNs I played. But now I understand it was because I approached them with a mindset issued from playing classic western computer graphic adventures and "choose your own adventure" deadwood books, while the majority VNs are built with the different "mixed" system you detailed.

So now I may have to re-think my opinion of some of the VNs I played, in my mind I might have rated poorer than I would had I known better what to expect of the gaming experience.

Thanks again. Since I began playing VNs the text you wrote is the best aid to "grocking" the genre that I've read so far.
#838 by kiru
2016-04-04 at 16:38
< report >If you'd wanna add a tag about flags or points, you'd need to do something a bit more specific, yeah. Most VNs use points, as in, the heroine you choose the most you get the route with. Doesn't need to be obvious. Blind choices are a thing too, which we have tags for as well. That said, it does get a bit different as well.

One example would be Never7. Looking at that flowchart (just google, it's on gamefaqs I think), you'll see a rather rare variant of points, mixed with flags and direct choices.
It's not about "choose a girl= get a point". Points can be gotten, AND lost depending on "correct" or "wrong" choices. It's a bit like a dating-sim I suppose, but not really.. you aren't trying to date someone here. Also what you can gain or lose varies. That's also not too common I think. There are definitely more VNs which do a bit of a "dating sim" style system, where it's not about getting events with a heroine, but rather about not messing up. I feel like these two point systems are rather different, so maybe some separation may be an idea. But other than that.. a general "point system" is so common, I'd also say that might be overkill. Heck, even if a VN only has flags, you could still consider it a "point system"..
#839 by anonymous
2016-04-10 at 21:50
< report >Bunnygirl Heroine & Bunnyboy Hero

why are these tag a mix of heroine attire and actual bunnygirl's wouldn't it make more sense to split it off.
Just like Catgirl Heroine is split off from Nekomimi Heroine.

anyways in there current state they should be added as child of Non-human Heroine & Non-human Hero.Last modified on 2016-04-10 at 22:25
#840 by savagetiger
2016-04-18 at 02:14
< report >Kitsune Hero shouldn't be under Furry
kitsune heroine nor any of the other animal-girl/boy tags are childtags of furry.
#841 by loli
2016-04-20 at 09:14
< report >One True End should be renamed to "True Route" or "True Route" should be added as an alias for that tag, since "True Route" is used more often than any other term for describing the true ending of a VN.
#842 by anonymous
2016-04-20 at 19:13
< report >Only One Bad Ending is a content tag
Only One Good Ending is a technical tag
#843 by hybrid-being
2016-04-25 at 08:25
< report >For some reason C cup is the only breast size tag to have "cup" not capitalized.
#844 by anonymous
2016-04-26 at 15:19
< report >Friendship Ending, Pregnancy Ending, Pregnancy Bad Ending are content tags but should be technical like all other ending tags.

Trap on Male should be moved to a child of Trap (if approved)Last modified on 2016-04-26 at 15:22
#845 by hybrid-being
2016-04-27 at 11:09
< report >Should portrayal of semen disqualify VN as Softcore if genitals are not shown as according to tag description? Started a little discussion here.Last modified on 2016-04-27 at 11:10
#846 by takata
2016-04-29 at 13:25
< report >@t3617.829 nutellafan: Seems, okay. Done.
@t3617.831 savagetiger: Okay, moved up to Theme for now since I'm not sure where else to put it.

@t3617.834 vargr1105, t3617.835 gabezhul: The term "flag" may also be used in computer engineering to denote an area of memory that is 1 bit in size.

@t3617.836 silence: Hm... they seem slightly different. The first concerns anything unlocked at 100%. The second concerns stuff unlocked at less than 100%, but appears(?) to be restricted to out-of-game or out-of-universe stuff. As an example, if you unlocked an in-game-item at 100%, it would appear(?) to fit the first tag, but not the second. (Not sure if my interpretations are even correct. >.<)

@t3617.839 hex: ...should probably unmix most of the real bunny-characters from the fake ones before moving stuff around.

@t3617.840 savagetiger: Okay, moved.
@t3617.841 loli: Hm... okay, I'll leave "True Route" as an alias for now since "One True End" sounds a bit more explicit.
@t3617.844 hex: Okay, moved to Technical.
#847 by savagetiger
2016-04-30 at 00:31
< report >Kissing Scene actually the category shouldn't be sexual content, should just be regular content. And then I guess it could be under the Theme>Romance heading.

unless it's supposed to be only kissing scenes in the middle of other lewd stuff.
#848 by anonymous
2016-04-30 at 07:02
< report >@844 Trap is a misleading tag name, since sex scenes involving traps doesn't have to be m/m.
#849 by hko2006
2016-05-04 at 19:16
< report >g2450
First time adding new tags, forgot to mark it technical. Please fix, thanks.
#850 by anonymous
2016-05-04 at 19:35
< report >@848 yeah probably should of called it something else like ( Trap (Yaoi) ) but my mind always forgets/fails to register the manga's or VN's that involve cross-dressers who engage outside of m/m as trap.Last modified on 2016-05-04 at 19:39