Tags suggestions/fixes

Posted in

#2876 by hansfranz77
2022-07-17 at 21:31
< report >I'm sorry if this one was asked before, but i really can't read 113 pages here now. :P
I would like to request a "moege tag", if there is voting up on that, it might help clarify how much "nonsense comedy " vs. "how much relevant story beats" is in a vn tagged with it?

Until today, i thought a vn like link would fall into this "sub-genre" just like. link did, but one is very much not like the other. And these are just two examples i have in the back of my head pretty much all the time i see someone mentioning something like: "it's only supposed to be cute girls doing cute things, so it's ok if it's utter nonsense and only funny!" I'm at the point today where i want a tool to filter this shitty mindset out as best as i can. While still having a way to catch the former category if possible.Last modified on 2022-07-17 at 21:44
#2877 by usagi
2022-07-17 at 22:43
< report >Been there done that. The tag was proposed and denied several times already. It's useless to try again, I think. The main reason is that it's impossible to make up concise and logical definition of a genre to avoid mistagging and infinite tag wars. The fact that many people consider this term as derogatory - doesn't help too since they will be defending their favorite titles from that label with all they got.
#2878 by Ileca
2022-07-18 at 00:03
< report >More importantly, a moege tag would certainly not help make the distinction between those two... moege. Ano Harewataru Sora yori Takaku doesn't even have the comedy tag.
#2879 by NaioHoras
2022-07-29 at 12:55
< report >Multiple Songs' main name should be swapped with its alias "Insert Song" to avoid people mixing it up multiple OP/ED, which is already happened pretty often.Last modified on 2022-07-29 at 12:55
#2880 by Marc402
2022-07-31 at 17:08
< report >This was discussed on another thread a while ago, but since the tag wasn't changed I'm posting it here. The description of Heroine with Sexual Experience should be changed to clarify two things:

1. Should it be applied to sequels because the heroine had sex with the protagonist in the previous game (for example, Nekopara series)? In my opinion no, since that is not what most people typically use this tag for, as mentioned by #4 in that thread.
2. Does lesbian sex count for this tag? Heroine Having Sex with Others excludes lesbian sex, but some people in that thread seem to think it should count.
#2881 by weter
2022-08-01 at 04:40
< report >#2880, I always thought it didn't matter if the heroine lost her virginity to the protagonist or not, if in the new VN she is not a virgin then the tag is put

I think this can be fixed by adding tags Heroine with Sexual Experience With Others, Heroine with Sexual Experience With Others Only, Heroine with Sexual Experience With Protagonist, Heroine with Sexual Experience With Protagonist Only
#2882 by Ezezin
2022-08-03 at 15:33
< report >Because of winter holidays, I was not very active in discussions this past month, so I wanted to share some of my thoughts about a few of the recent tags that were approved.

---------------------------------

Isn't All Just a Dream just the same as Dream? If dreaming was part of the whole story, it should be a major spoiler, but Dream were already used as mayor spoiler before the tag was accepted, and now both tags will be applied because one is part of Theme and the other is part of Ending, which, in most cases, is just duplicate information. Even if it were a child tag of Dream, I don't see how it could be useful except, maybe, when Dream is a mayor spoiler not related to an ending (but are there enough cases to warrant a different tag?).

In any case, I think All Just a Dream should be a child tag of Dream.

---------------------------------

About Walking Simulator, I'm not sure I understand correctly. At first it explains what the genre is about, but then it compares itself with Map Movement? I mean, I kinda understand the reason behind it, but I don't think the part about
This tag should not be confused with Map Movement, a similar mechanic.
is correct. We have games where characters move from point A to point B (in a 2D, 3D environment, not using menu choices) just to follow the story with very little to no interactions, and I don't think those should be tagged as Walking Simulator (Gijou Choukyou! Namaiki na Gijou wa Papa no Omocha, Third Hornet).

On the other hand, there are games which you move the character while interacting with the environment but has other gameplay mechanics as well (Dangan Ronpa Kibou no Gakuen to Zetsubou no Koukousei, Corpse Party: Blood Covered). Should those games be tagged with Walking Simulator too? They have walking sim elements, but according to the description, they shouldn't be marked as such because
This is a genre of narrative games emerging from the Adventure Game genre that generally eschew any type of gameplay outside of movement and environmental interaction [...] Walking simulators feature few or even no puzzles at all, and win/lose conditions may not exist.
Not sure if that was intended or was a product of copying the description from Wikipedia, but I believe those games should be tagged with it.

My suggestion is to change the description just enough so it can be used in more works while referencing the main two gameplay mechanics that are the core of most walking sims: 2D/3D movement and interaction with the environment.

This visual novel features elements of an Environmental Narrative Game, more commonly known as a Walking Simulator.

This is a genre of narrative games emerging from the Adventure Game genre that generally eschew any type of gameplay outside of movement and environmental interaction that allow players to experience their story through exploration and discovery. [definition; can be expanded from Wikipedia if needed]

Visual novels that shares elements from these games allows players to roam around the environment and interact with characters and objects (like books, audio logs or clues) that develop or advance the story while moving a character in a 2D or 3D space.[tag application]
If the character only walks trough the environment but the player can't interact with objects or other characters, use Map Movement instead.

Edit 3: Parent tags: Interactive Adventure Game (walking sims are adventure games) and Map Movement (all walking sims have some kind of map movement; it's a requirement for the tag to be applied).

---------------------------------

Blind Date: Just a little more broad, so we can also use it for characters who only talked over the internet (dating apps for example) but never met in person.

A blind date is a social engagement between two people who have not previously met in person, usually arranged by a mutual acquaintance, the use of an online dating program or over the internet.

---------------------------------

Prostitute Training: So should this tag be used only on pure prostitute trainings sims or not? If yes, I thinks that's a pretty important explanation that should be stated in the tag description.

---------------------------------

Edit: t18783: Gehh, personally I think Heroine with Sexual Experience should be applied if said heroine had sex with anyone before the story takes place, protagonist or not, lesbian or straight, defloration or not. Now, if what Ileca said in #4 was true:
This tag was made to highlight heroines who had sex with someone who is not the protagonist and are considered non pure to dumbfucks a category of people. If you can tag VN like that, then the tag needs reworking.
Then yes, I also think the tag needs a rework or a new tag equivalent to Role > Pre-Story Virginity Loss to Protagonist

Edit 2: Forget it, I was wrong on this one after all.Last modified on 2022-08-07 at 09:40
#2883 by beliar
2022-08-03 at 15:43
< report >
This was discussed on another thread a while ago, but since the tag wasn't changed I'm posting it here. The description of Heroine with Sexual Experience should be changed to clarify two things:

1. Should it be applied to sequels because the heroine had sex with the protagonist in the previous game (for example, Nekopara series)? In my opinion no, since that is not what most people typically use this tag for, as mentioned by #4 in that thread.
2. Does lesbian sex count for this tag? Heroine Having Sex with Others excludes lesbian sex, but some people in that thread seem to think it should count.

Imho the tag was indeed never supposed to be used if the heroine lost the virginity to the protagonist prior to the events of the VN, so I'll clarify that.

The lesbian question is a bit harder to answer. Heroine Having Sex with Others is used to mark the events that do not fall within the ntr definition, but still might trigger a particular breed of people, however even among those people only are rare individual objects to lesbian sex, because girl-on-girl is objectively hot, hence lesbian sex is not included in the definition. This question though asks about a sexual experience, which lesbian sex falls under, so I personally think it should be included, but don't have a definite stance on that.

Edit: @EZZ

You know, all the good tags have already been exhausted, so the recent submissions get more and more wacky.

Isn't All Just a Dream just the same as Dream?
You may be right. Mayhap these two tags are redundant. I'll think about deleting the new one.

About Walking Simulator
This tag really weirded me out, as I haven't seen any VNs that would correspond to the definition provided. Your definition makes much more sense, so I think I'll replace the old one with yours.

Blind Date
Agreed.

Prostitute Training
What are your thoughts? I'd say only the pure Prostitute trainers should apply, but I'm sure no one will bother tagging correctly if that were the definition. Maybe I shouldn't have approved it at all...Last modified on 2022-08-03 at 16:09
#2884 by Ezezin
2022-08-03 at 16:37
< report >About Prostitute Training, sadly, I'm not very informed on those kind of games and never played them so take this with a grain of salt; but I agree that only pure prostitute training should apply. The possibility of a character turned into a prostitute from raising sim should be treated as an outcome, a route or ending from raising simulators.

Hopefully users won't confuse it with a brothel simulator, if that's a thing in VNs.

Edit: And rename it Prostitute Training Simulator. Otherwise people who don't read the descriptions will think that the tag is about the story or a scene.Last modified on 2022-08-07 at 09:46
#2885 by Marc402
2022-08-03 at 16:45
< report >#2883
This question though asks about a sexual experience, which lesbian sex falls under
Lesbian sex also technically falls under Heroine Having Sex with Others if we just go by the name but it's still excluded since it's hot for most people, so it wouldn't be unusual to exclude it here either. Besides, I assume most people use the alias which is Non-virgin Heroine, not the primary name.Last modified on 2022-08-03 at 16:47
#2886 by NaioHoras
2022-08-03 at 17:01
< report >Beliar, I think Heroine with Sexual Experience should be changed to this instead:
"If a game has sequel(s) and the heroine reappears in them, do not apply this tag those games."

because that is the main topic discussed in the other forum, not about with protagonist or not. also, there are numerous games where heroine lost virginity to the protag prior to the story already tagged with this tag, and some of them became important plot point.
not too mention it's a hindrance for searching too. how am I supposed to search for those games?

the one that matter about protagonist or not is this tag Heroine Having Sex with Others.Last modified on 2022-08-03 at 17:05
#2887 by Draconyan
2022-08-03 at 17:09
< report >@2883 I'd really prefer if the tag name actually matched the content, both for Heroine with Sexual Experience and Heroine Having Sex with Others. If people really want to discriminate what counts as sex and what doesn't, which still sounds ridiculous to me, why not make it a child tag?
#2888 by beliar
2022-08-03 at 18:45
< report >
the one that matter about protagonist or not is this tag Heroine Having Sex with Others
That tag concerns the content within the game, while Heroine with Sexual Experience is about the starting status of the heroine.

However, I wouldn't be opposed to creating "Heroine with Pre-story Virginity Loss to the Protagonist" tag to align it with the same trait and solve this debate.
#2889 by NaioHoras
2022-08-03 at 19:26
< report >forgot that the trait exists. but I guess a tag has more advantages especially with character entry reusage and the possibility that the character is a side character.

submitted the tag.

also, I suggest reverting Heroine with Sexual Experience's revision with reasons stated in g3610.1

edit: I forgot something. I think the new tag can and should be applied to game's sequel(s), so that should be added to the desc if you agree with me.Last modified on 2022-08-03 at 19:34
#2890 by beliar
2022-08-03 at 19:36
< report >
I forgot something. I think the new tag can and should be applied to game's sequel(s), so that should be added to the desc if you agree with me.
Yes, I agree. Clarified.
#2891 by Ileca
2022-08-03 at 19:47
< report >You forgot that we also have Protagonist with Sexual Experience, Hero with Sexual Experience, and Only Non-Virgin Heroines.
#2892 by NaioHoras
2022-08-03 at 19:50
< report >shhh.... as long as no one demands...
#2893 by beliar
2022-08-03 at 19:54
< report >Yeah, Ileca, I'll sew your mouth shut...

On a serious note:
* Protagonist with Sexual Experience is not relevant to the discussion
* Hero with Sexual Experience is technically in the same position as the Heroine tag, but no one on vndb gives shit about heroes, so as long as no one demands a child tag...
* Only Non-Virgin Heroines... eh, might as well concede, that the tag applies even if some of those heroines have lost their V-card to the protag prior to the game.
#2894 by Ileca
2022-08-03 at 20:27
< report >Protagonist with Sexual Experience is relevant because, you know, the protagonist can be a girl without being an otomege, with a male protagonist, like fake NTR... :)

but no one on vndb gives shit about heroes
Otomege fans, you are DISMISSED!
In a more politically correct way, I would say they are less obsessed about this matter. On the other hand, if the tag is here, it's for those who care. But yeah, as long as no one demands...

eh, might as well concede, that the tag applies even if some of those heroines have lost their V-card to the protag prior to the game
Only Non-Virgin Heroines without Pre-story Virginity Loss to the Protagonist.
Edit: those tags are messing with my head.Last modified on 2022-08-04 at 10:18
#2895 by weter
2022-08-04 at 07:59
< report >I think now that there is a Heroine with Pre-story Virginity Loss to the Protagonist and Only Non-Virgin Heroines tag, it is worth adding Only Heroine with Pre-story Virginity Loss to the Protagonist. Because there are vns that are sequels or fandiscs in which all the main/side cast routines are the same and there are those that add a new heroine, to make it clear right away
#2896 by NaioHoras
2022-08-04 at 08:10
< report >not if there is a bonus heroine added, which is common for fandisks. tagging it with 3 is enough.
#2897 by weter
2022-08-04 at 08:49
< report >Well it is not uncommon for the same cast to occur even among side characters, and we are talking about sequels too, it happens that side characters only get their share of sex scenes only in sequels and fandiscs, and sometimes even from the start of original story. It happens that can be 20+ heroines, 3.0 will not say that most or all of the heroines are no longer virgins

t12216.1 (About Traits-Characters) As many years ago wrote and many more wrote, we really need a system to give tags in relation to vn, but for this we create a bunch of not particularly necessary tags and that do not particularly reflect the meaning fully
#2898 by NaioHoras
2022-09-01 at 00:02
< report >No Background Music should have "No BGM" as an alias
#2899 by yunari-ah419
2022-09-01 at 14:55
< report >"Girls Love" should be added to Girl x Girl Romance Only's Aliases
#2900 by usagi
2022-09-01 at 17:41
< report >Medieval Fantasy should be subtag of Fantasy