Tags suggestions/fixes

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#26 by PabloC
2013-02-17 at 14:08
< report >^ That reminds me that I wanted to make a new description for g304. I'll think of something later...
Oh wait, didn't I say something like that already? :P
#27 by takata
2013-02-18 at 05:44
< report >g1667
Should this tag be approved or denied?

It could be used to mark games where the protagonist only has sex with one heroine on each playthrough (so no cheating on a heroine or group sex). It shouldn't be applied to games with only one heroine.

However, I think it might be applicable to so many games that it wouldn't end up being so useful. g1380 and i772 can mark games where the protagonist cheats on a heroine. g179 can mark games with group sex.
#28 by ano
2013-04-11 at 21:21
< report >I would like a tag for what I would temporarily call "Sprites Editors".
Now the hard things are about the name and description to fit everything compatible (and allowing to make child tags for more specific subcategories if needed later).

There are the "sprites editors" that include only heroines, those who include all games sprites, those who allow to make wallpapers,those who allow only a single sprite against those who allow several, and so on...
I think I even recall a game that would just put the characters sprites in the middle of the CG list (I mention it because if possible, that way of doing things should be included in the tag).

If somebody can think of a way to make a tag that properly include all means to "play" the sprites out of the normal game flow, I would be grateful if that tag was created.Last modified on 2013-04-11 at 21:22
#29 by silence
2013-04-12 at 12:34
< report >Yoku wakaranai. Desu xD
I just don't understand what you mean by "Sprites Editors". WTF?
#30 by surferdude
2013-04-12 at 12:52
< report >I think he means something like a CG gallery where you can also view the sprites, backgrounds and stuff like that.
Like in Bible Black or Shuffle, I guess.
#31 by tiglath
2013-04-12 at 12:55
< report >I don't know about making wallpapers, but there are certainly VNs that let you customize character sprites.

I believe it's a recurring feature in OLE-M nukiges, where you can change girl's clothes, make her naked or even switch between pale/tanned skin tone. Those modified sprites replace default ones you see during normal gameplay. I also recall playing a game that lets you change character's breast size (between big and huge of course) in a similar fashion.

So if a tag like this is to be created it could be named for example "customizable character sprites" or "sprites customization".
#32 by ano
2013-04-12 at 13:06
< report >A few examples screens:
img1 img2 img3 img4

note: because the actual "editor" hide the result too much, I made img3 to show what was created from img2.

edit: I'm not talking about customization, which is an already existing tag.Last modified on 2013-04-12 at 13:08
#33 by PabloC
2013-04-12 at 21:45
< report >@"Sprites Editor" (?)
I'm not entirely sure what Ano has in mind. If it's something like a CG gallery that just allows you to browse sprites and change their outfits, poses, etc., than I think it should be called "Sprites Gallery" or something. I don't think it will be that useful though...
If such "editor" allows modifying sprites that appear in the VN, then it is a kind of customization.

And when we are at that, I'd say that we generally need to add a few more child tags under g447, as currently it mainly covers custom names. :P
First, for better organization we could make a tag called "Appearance Customization".
Description: "In this VN you can customize some characters appearance to some extent, from picking their outfits, to choosing breast size, hair color etc."
This is what one would usually look for when thinking about customization anyway, so separating this from modifiable names would be a good idea (and g1651 should be put under this tag).

Making specific child-tags here will be a bit difficult for me, since I didn't try too many titles that have such options, so I'll only make some suggestions:
- Clothes customization (g1651 is specifically for whole alternative costumes, Kamidori style. It doesn't cover choosing parts of clothing, accessories and other more specific customization options).
- Body customization (if you can choose breast size, eyes/hair/skin color and such).
- In-game customization (usually you can customize characters only once, either at the very beginning or when they appear for the first time, but some of the examples mentioned in earlier posts seem like they would allow you to mess with sprites at any moment. If I guessed wrong, ignore this suggestion).

And maybe also one more child tag under g447: "Personality customization" (I think I saw such option when I was checking out Custom Reido F, I may remember something wrong though, I didn't play it yet).

@One more thing:
g1667 is completely useless - it covers almost every single non-nukige VN. And currently only VNs with g268 have it, so it earns the No-Shit-Sherlock Award. :P
Making the opposite tag, for VNs where the protagonist has sex with more than one character per route may be a bit more useful, as those are less common (gangbang nukiges aside). So if anything, I'd suggest changing this tag into something like that:

Name: Multiple Sex Partners
Description: "The protagonist of this VN has sex with multiple characters during the single route (that also includes common route if there is one). It does not have to be group sex or cheating. For example sleeping with some other girls before getting into a relationship with a heroine, or breaking up with one girlfriend and getting another counts too."Last modified on 2013-04-12 at 21:50
#34 by silence
2013-04-13 at 13:01
< report >Do we have something similar to "animated (Н)scenes" tag, which already denied twice? By the way, I did not understand why.
#35 by PabloC
2013-04-13 at 13:39
< report >@Silence
Yes, we have. Every release has an Animation field, it covers both story animations and H animations (check r12948 for example).
#36 by silence
2013-04-13 at 13:59
< report >^ Okay, and how I supposed to search for it? Don't you think it would be better to describe it with the tags?
#37 by warfoki
2013-04-13 at 14:07
< report >Here: link
#38 by silence
2013-04-13 at 14:32
< report >I wouldn't look for the games just with the animated scenes. I also want to use some tags. But they are not available in the releases.Last modified on 2013-04-13 at 14:33
#39 by yorhel
2013-04-13 at 18:19
< report >@silence: It's more a matter of duplicated information. We *already* have the information, so a tag would be redundant. And yes, the idea is that the search functionality should be more powerful to allow more combination of VN/release filters. Now *that* is what we should focus on, not trying to patch things up with tags.
#40 by takata
2013-04-15 at 13:07
< report >@#28,#32 "Sprites Editor":
These look like in-game "tools" to assemble images from the game artwork. I might call them an "Image Editor" or "Image Assembler". However, I don't think we should add child tags yet unless we can find more than 20 or so VNs with this feature.

Tag guideline additions:
I'd like to add a tag creation guideline to d10#2.2 to attempt to increase the quality of new tags proposed by users.
"Only request a tag if you can link it to at least 4 visual novels. Remember, you can link a tag to a visual novel even if the tag has not yet been approved by a moderator."

Customization tags:
This got discussed a bit before in t3161, but it looks like no changes were carried out. How about the following tag tree structure. Some of the tag names will need to be improved, but hopefully you get the idea.

Customization (meta)

Customization > Nameability (meta)
Customization > Nameability > Nameable Protagonist
Customization > Nameability > Nameable Heroine(s)
Customization > Nameability > Nameable Hero(es)
Customization > Nameability > Nameable Units (the description should also define what a "unit" is)

Customization > Changeble Clothes (can only select whole outfits)
Customization > Changeble Clothes > Clothes customization (can select parts of outfits, individual garments, accessories etc)
Customization > Body Customization (can change breast size, eyes/hair/skin color etc)
Customization > Personality Customization (can change how characters act or talk etc, v5734 seems to be an example)

Main problem is we need to go through the few hundred VNs carrying the customization tag and give them the more specific tags (for body, personality or clothing customization).

@#33, About g1667:
On one hand, this tag didn't seem very useful, but on the other hand, it didn't seem to be doing much damage by existing. It seemed like the most accurate way of marking VNs where the protagonist "stays loyal" to one heroine. Maybe there are lots of other ways to find such games... O.o

Sounds like a really nice feature, but I wonder how often I'd use it myself.
#41 by ano
2013-04-15 at 14:20
< report >I made an attempt: g1715
Now I wish I could find more games to link to it for the example, but that's the reason I wanted a tag in the first place lol.
#42 by soketsu
2013-04-15 at 14:30
< report >nah! Why not just extract all necessary images in the vn files using the tools in tlwiki then photoshop 'em all?
#43 by PabloC
2013-04-15 at 15:26
< report >@#40
Only request a tag if you can link it to at least 4 visual novels.
Bad idea. It will make adding tags for very rare things nearly impossible. I usually don't know that many titles featuring some weird fetishes when I make a tag for them (g1606 comes to mind). But the rarity is what makes such tags especially useful, for those who like exploring strange, uncommon stuff, that is (like myself). :P

As for g1667, my suggestion is to make the opposite tag. The current one applies to most non-nukige titles with sexual content (and probably quite a few nukiges as well), do you really feel like tagging them all? We don't have tags for "protagonist without voice acting" or "protagonist without a face" for the same reason - it's better to make tags for the less common variant. Tag for multiple sex partners per route will be much more practical, because like I said, such situations are rare.

Good job with the customization tags, it looks very clear and organized. But yeah, fixing tags on 500 VNs will be a chore. Most of them have nameable characters though, so there's a good chance it's the only customization option available (if not, suitable tags can always be added later by people who have read those VNs).

"Player" sounds weird, what you described is more like "sprites browser" or simply "sprites gallery". And the last sentence is unnecessary, it doesn't really give any information.Last modified on 2013-04-15 at 15:28
#44 by ano
2013-04-15 at 15:37
< report >Well in v7560 there are heroines sprites, males sprites, and sprites from other games.It's hard to make a tag that would not exclude anything.Last modified on 2013-04-15 at 15:38
#45 by PabloC
2013-04-15 at 15:52
< report >^ I just don't think it's really necessary to mention what kind of sprites you can browse, that's not the point of this tag.
#46 by soketsu
2013-04-15 at 16:04
< report >"Player"... sound more like some vn's omake of giving the player(reader) the liberty freely manipulate sprites and other graphical elements -- dressing up, undressing down, arranging for a snap shot, etc. This link Omake even allows the reader to write/play scenarios using all of the vns graphical resources.Last modified on 2013-04-15 at 16:06
#47 by takata
2013-04-16 at 11:08
< report >"Sprites Editor":
I had a look at some of the VNs tagged with g1715 (link), and I think I have a better idea of what the tag is for. It seems to be in the same vein as g1555, g1474 and g1695. How about this name and description for g1715 ?

name: Sprite Viewer / Sprite Gallery (put other names in aliases)
These games allow the player to view character sprites outside the normal flow of the story (similar to the way event CGs and scenes can be re-viewed).

I'll agree with the suggestions from pabloc and soketsu on this.

Silhouette Sprites:
I noticed g1003 was misused on a few VNs. Not all of the sprites in these VNs were silhouettes. Should we have a tag for VNs that use silhouettes for some, but not all character sprites? That is, like this:

Sprites > Silhouette Sprites (for VNs which use silhouettes for some character sprites)
Sprites > Silhouette Sprites > Only Silhouette Sprites (for VNs which use silhouettes for ALL character sprites)

Scenario Selection:
What exactly was g1554 meant to cover?
For v861 and v862, one choice very near the start of the game determines which heroine you end the game with. However, the VN follows roughly the same plot regardless of which heroine you choose. Your chosen heroine will just take a more prominent role in the plot.
Was this tag meant to be used in this case?Last modified on 2013-04-16 at 11:28
#48 by ds1150
2013-04-16 at 17:12
< report >@#41
Added a few more I know

I also think "Sprite Viewer" sounds better than the current name
#49 by PabloC
2013-04-16 at 17:41
< report >@Silhouette Sprites
Good idea.

@Scenario Selection
That tag was meant for games with multiple, alternative scenarios chosen from the menu. Some fandisks that let you pick various heroine's scenarios can be a good example here (like v84). Or visual novels that are sets of different short stories.
g489 usually works in a similar way, when the side stories are unlocked.

If you start the VN normally, and then you are presented with a choice somewhere within the game, that's a normal system, only with just one decision point, that's not what this tag should be used for.Last modified on 2013-04-16 at 17:42
#50 by takata
2013-04-16 at 23:22
< report >
For v861 and v862, one choice very near the start of the game determines which heroine you end the game with. However, the VN follows roughly the same plot regardless of which heroine you choose. Your chosen heroine will just take a more prominent role in the plot.
Just to clarify, the choice that determines which heroine you end the game with occurs about 10 - 30 lines into the game.
It's a "Schrodinger's Question" which asks you which heroine you chose in the prequel so that you can continue her storyline in this game.
It seems a bit in the grey zone... I might just downvote the tag instead of overriding it for now.Last modified on 2013-04-16 at 23:25