Tags suggestions/fixes

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#1201 by dk382
2018-05-26 at 11:16
There are indeed h-games with cosplay but no cosplay h-scenes. Dracu-Riot! has a character that engages in cosplay for instance and thus has the cosplay trait, but there is no sexual cosplay. So there is definitely utility in making a distinction.Last modified on 2018-05-26 at 11:17
#1202 by eacil
2018-05-27 at 07:12
Can LiveMaker be approved with this description?

This visual novel was made using LiveMaker.
LiveMaker is one of the most used engine by Japanese doujin makers because it is free and beginner friendly. It is easily recognizable because of its standard UI. Folder should include a live.dll file.

I don't know if live.dll is mandatory but I don't have a counter example.
Oh, and you will need to move it to Engine.
It's funny to see that the reason why it was denied contains the reason why it should not (Ren'py is "the go-to engine to most free OELVNs", well, guess what, it's the same for crappy Japanese doujins, a shitload of them use LiveMaker. If you are technical, you use Kirikiri, if you are not, you use LiveMaker and if you are a moron you use TyranoBuilder or flash).

Also, can we update KiriKiri Engine with:
Folder should include files with xp3 extension.

I was thinking about adding TyranoBuilder but I am not sure about what is a requirement to this engine. Credits.html? I always spotted this file until now.Last modified on 2018-05-27 at 08:06
#1203 by beliar
2018-05-27 at 08:06
When the idea was proposed to start tagging the engines, I was against it. However, considering someone opened the friggin doors approving Ren'Py and RPG Maker engines, I suppose we might as well start tagging others... :-(
#1204 by eacil
2018-05-27 at 08:37
The two I am suggesting are free and kind of give you an idea of the (low) quality you will encounter. It's like RPG Maker, you kind of already know before reading what to expect.
Also, if TyranoBuilder is fortunately not widely spread, it is not currently hookable so it's an interesting bit of information before considering buying.

I am also not for tagging engines like it should be per release based (like I didn't see a single xp3 in the original release of Kara no Shoujo so I thought there was mistagging until I checked my english release) but like there is no better alternative...

Maybe apply some restrictions? Justify the usefulness of this engine tag?
Example: Adobe AIR tag because it's a requirement.
Only available/not custom engines?Last modified on 2018-05-27 at 08:51
#1205 by leery
2018-05-27 at 09:24
Murder Mystery should be a child tag of Homicide too.

Oh, and please poke me when you start going through the seven-month backlog of tag issues in this thread. They start on page 44 AFAICT...
#1206 by leery
2018-05-28 at 07:39
Sitting is one of those tags that violate the "tag names should be self-describing" guideline. Should be renamed to "Sitting Sex" or something.

Quite a few others over at Sexual Content by Activity, actually. Including the Doggy I mentioned n pages ago.
#1207 by leery
2018-06-02 at 08:49
Gore Filter is filed under 'Content' but should be 'Technical'...

Time Counter should be renamed to 'Playtime counter' ...
(And something like "Elapsed time" be added as an alias...)

Rebellion looks kind of funny under Government and maybe should be moved to Politics...

Sudden Girlfriend Appearance should be a Content tag, not Technical...

Non-Binary Love Interest shouldn't be directly under Character...

Dirty Talk shouldn't be directly under Theme or Sexual Content for that matter...

Stripping sounds like it belongs under Other Gameplay Elements and renamed to Strip Game (and filed under Technical)...Last modified on 2018-06-02 at 14:13
#1208 by leery
2018-06-02 at 13:23
Propose a meta tag called 'Story Events' to be filed under Other Elements or maybe even Theme which could house quite a few things from Other Elements:

Arranged Marriage
Babysitting
Beauty Pageant
Childhood Promise
Competition
Daydreams
Ear-Cleaning
Festival
Food Discussions
Hacking
Halloween
Homecoming
Kissing Scene
Natural Disaster
Panchira
Reunion
Valentine's Day
Wedding

...Yeah, that's not a great selection, but it's a few things out of the mess that is Other Elements.Last modified on 2018-06-02 at 13:25
#1209 by leery
2018-06-03 at 09:06
Real Date Referral needs a better name.

I came up with "Real-world Calendar Bonus"
#1210 by leery
2018-06-10 at 09:00
Imouto-type Heroine's and Oneesan-type Heroine's descriptions seem to be lacking something crucial: what do the tags actually mean?
#1211 by beliar
2018-06-10 at 09:24
And that's why I never use such tags, because I have no idea what they mean.
#1212 by thewayfarer
2018-06-10 at 09:42
Yeah, those two need more elaboration.

To me, it's referring to character(s) with the personality or persona of a "little sister" or a "big sister" (respectively speaking). So I use those traits on novels containing characters with such characteristics.
#1213 by sakurakoi
2018-06-10 at 10:24
Well, it'd be best to limit them to when the protagonist refers to/sees them as a little/older sister or the heroine in question refers to the protagonist or sees them as an older/younger sibling (a distinction should be made for when onee-san/onii-san is used in case of "I do not know your name, mind having a one-night stand?"). Same logic would apply to Musume-type.

Real Date Referral needs a better name.

I came up with "Real-world Calendar Bonus"

I'd say "System Time Events" fits best

by the by, voice-only clips are also not uncommon, at least I remember Minato Soft if not also Minato Carnival utilize that. Not quite sure where even a heroines birthday was "celebrated"...
#1214 by barfboy
2018-06-13 at 00:21
Can I make a suggestion to change 'cheating' to its own separate tag?

Right now it's an alias under 'Adultery' with NTR and all of its tags under it. I think we should have a separate tag however for games that contain cheating that have nothing to do with the protagonist.

For example:
Hikami Sae

Cheats on her husband. A lot. But who cares? She's not a heroine. So it's not NTR and it's not Netori because she neither cheats on the protagonist nor does she cheat with him.

She just cheats on her husband with random guys that are irrelevant to the story. I suggest a Cheating tag with some of the following description.

A non heroine character cheats on their spouse or significant other with a character that is not the protagonist.
#1215 by leery
2018-06-14 at 06:20
I figure Hostel is not a good alias for Boarding House after all. But 'Motel' might work.

Based on an image search, hostels are about having a shared sleeping quarters, usually for 10+ people per room.

Maybe an addition to the description would be good too:

"The people living here still get a private room, of course."



Protagonist from a Different World: add alias 'Protagonist from Another World'
Heroine from a Different World: ditto

On the Run: add alias 'Chased', 'Hunted', maybe 'Hiding', 'Hideout'
(I think it should have something that contains the word 'hide')

(The tag can technically be used to tag a VN where the protagonist is a policeman and the people on the run are criminals, I guess. I wonder if it should have some verbiage to prevent that. Probably not.)

Boke Heroine and Airhead Heroine sound eerily similar.Last modified on 2018-06-14 at 07:41
#1216 by minah
2018-06-14 at 09:00
Proposed a Nameable Characters tag as a parent for Nameable Hero(es), Nameable Heroine(s), Nameable Pet(s), Nameable Protagonist, and Nameable Units for situations where the nameable characters don't fall under those categories.

Should actually be Nameable Character(s), sorry for messing that up.Last modified on 2018-06-14 at 09:00
#1217 by beliar
2018-06-14 at 17:59
@barfboy: That sounds like a patently bad idea. Considering Adultery and Cheating are synonyms, we would have to invent our own definition of cheating just to split the tag. And then, considering no one reads the descriptions, no one will use the tags correctly and there will be inevitable confusion. No, I will not do this, because I see little payoff and lots that would go wrong.

@leery: I don't think "Motel" works as an alias here, as those do not provide meals, like boarding houses or pensions. I'm not sure about hostels, as I'm not really familiar with those.

I don't think On the Run should be used for cases, where the protag is the cop chasing a suspect. I'll probably add "Being Chased" and "Being Hunted" as the aliases, but I don't like the "Hiding" alias you have proposed. It has some different connotations.

Boke Heroine and Airhead Heroine may sound similar, but the former implies the existence of a tsukkomi character, thus I suppose the difference comes from the fact that boke has interactions with a tsukkomi when expressing her airheadedness. Sigh, there is a reason why I never use such tags, but I'm not gonna fiddle with those.

@minah: Good idea - I'll add it.

....

@everyone and yorhel:

Currently there is a shitload of VN engines festering in the tag queue, which I'm loath to approve. I already dislike those few approved engine tags (Engine). It's too much of a release specific tag. Many VN's get ports on different engines and you can sometimes see the same VN going through 3-4 engines as the time passes. The clearest example is Mangagamer, which currently almost always ports their translations. What to do in such cases? Tag the VN with 2-3 different engine tags? That's ridiculous and serves no purpose.

I suggest, that if there is really a desire to see the engine information, to create a field in the release entry, just like the recently implemented "no censorship" field. It should probably be a dropbox with the most common engine names, plus "other" and "unknown" with the latter being the default option. I don't think it would be hard to implement and would be much more accurate than just a tag and would satisfy those who think an engine is a crucial information.

I don't think I'm gonna approve the current tags in the queue - not only are they not really accurate, they will cause an unnecessary confusion for multi-engine games.
#1218 by minah
2018-06-14 at 18:04
^ I'm pretty sure there's been previous discussion about adding an engine field to release entries and the conclusion was that there were too many engines for it to be practical. If it's possible to implement it that way, though, I think it would be more useful than a tag.
#1219 by yorhel
2018-06-14 at 18:06
I suggest, that if there is really a desire to see the engine information, to create a field in the release entry
Yeah, that's been discussed. I'm not at all against it, but as usual there wasn't a concensus so nothing happened. I suppose I should stop expecting people to agree on something.

EDIT: I do agree that engines shouldn't be tags.Last modified on 2018-06-14 at 18:07
#1220 by kiru
2018-06-14 at 18:14
We have so many tags that are only applying to specific releases of a VN (even down to all the plenty plenty sexual ones never applying to all ages releases), what's a few more?

Of course, what we should do is heavily trim our tag-list, as nobody knows even remotely all of them anyway, and if tags aren't known, they aren't searched for nor added to fitting VNs. But that's another story. And a lot of work. I don't know how many tags we have, but I feel like more than 50% can be removed and/or used as part of a more broad tag. Probably even more.
Maybe one of these days it's tackled. Just like the "VN length" stuff.
#1221 by beliar
2018-06-14 at 18:39
@yorhel:
I suppose I should stop expecting people to agree on something
Wiser words have never been spoken. :-) I have noticed a long ass time ago, that if you propose something on VNDB, all you'll get is useless bickering and back and forth, before no decision is reached. If you want to accomplish something, you need to do it and only then inform the others...

Anyway, that's my proposal to you: an engine field within the release entry. Think about implementing it, if it is not too hard. In order to prevent the bloat, a group of most common engines should probably be selected, with other VNs simply marked as "other".

@kiru:
We have so many tags that are only applying to specific releases of a VN (even down to all the plenty plenty sexual ones never applying to all ages releases), what's a few more?
And that makes it OK to create even more confusion?...

Of course, what we should do is heavily trim our tag-list
That I heartily agree with. The Db has a shitload of tags that wouldn't be approved if they ended on my table today...Last modified on 2018-06-14 at 18:40
#1222 by leery
2018-06-14 at 18:54
@leery: I don't think "Motel" works as an alias here, as those do not provide meals, like boarding houses or pensions. I'm not sure about hostels, as I'm not really familiar with those.

Well, it was my tag proposal; I'm fine with no Motel (the link can be a bit tenuous indeed), but I think I added Hostel as synonymspam by mistake and it should be removed. The image search results are full of rooms with at least 3-4 two-storey beds. It doesn't really seem to be in the same class as a Bed & Breakfast.

[On the Run] [...] but I don't like the "Hiding" alias you have proposed. It has some different connotations.

The way I view it, if you're on the run, you will most likely at least once crash at a friend's place or something when trying to avoid whomever you're trying to avoid. You could say you're hiding at the friend's place.

It's actually not supposed to be a "real" alias. I know it's flawed. I'm just trying to help the tag's visibility, since it has such an uncommon (read: unsearchable) name. As I said, it should have something that contains the word 'hide'. I think people would search for 'hide', just to see if something relevant comes up. That's it. No further reasons from me.
#1223 by leery
2018-06-15 at 13:48
Airhead Heroine:
One of the Heroines is an absolute airhead, happy-go-lucky-no-common-sense whatsoever girl.

Airhead Hero:
One of the Heroes is an absolute airhead, happy-go-lucky-no-common-sense whatsoever guy.

Could these descriptions please be toned down? I find these tags hard to use, because "absolute airhead", "no common sense whatsoever" are very restricting.

Airhead Protagonist:
Protagonist is an airhead.

Airheads lack common sense, but have a happy and friendly attitude.

This is much better. I propose the hero/heroine tags use Airhead Protagonist's template.

Also, add alias to all three: ditz.



Mangaka Protagonist: Add alias "Manga Artist Protagonist", maybe "Comic Writer Protagonist", move under Artist Protagonist.
Same aliases for Mangaka Hero and Mangaka Heroine too.


On the Run: alias 'Being Pursued'



Gynecologist Chair (tag) and Gynecologist Chair (trait):

A gynecologist chair [...] help the patient spread his legs.

I've never been to a gynaecologist myself, but I reckon it's quite normal that males don't.Last modified on 2018-06-15 at 14:23
#1224 by usagi
2018-06-15 at 19:29
I was compelled to create Pedophile Protagonist and related child tags Lolicon Protagonist and Shotacon Protagonist just because of OctoberWEEN. I am really surprised that such obvious tags weren't created until now unless I am missing some conspiracy/controversy about it.

P.S.: forgot to add "Do not use this tag for protagonists without considerable age difference between them and their sexual interests." I hope moderator will fix it.
P.P.S: also whether it should be part of Protagonist with Psychological Problems meta-tag is debatable since this tag is part of drama tag - and there are lots of lolicon/shotacon vns with happy/lighthearted settings. I am ok with either variant though.Last modified on 2018-06-15 at 19:42
#1225 by kominarachromer
2018-06-15 at 19:55
Bara should be a sub-tag of Yaoi.

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