Tags suggestions/fixes

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#1626 by shining17
2019-04-01 at 03:44
Lol, good one Warfoki.
#1627 by eacil
2019-04-01 at 04:57
-----Last modified on 2019-04-02 at 03:03
#1628 by eltonan
2019-04-01 at 06:04
Just noticed the Wholesome Family Entertainment tag. Very funny April fools joke guys.
#1629 by beliar
2019-04-01 at 16:57
#1630 by entra
2019-04-04 at 12:16
Protagonist's Sister-in-Law as a Heroine should by definition be a child of Married Heroine
#1631 by adamstan
2019-04-04 at 12:24
Not always. From dictionary:
"Definition of sister-in-law
1 : the sister of one's spouse
2a : the wife of one's sibling
b : the wife of one's spouse's sibling"

You describe cases 2a and b, but in case 1 she can be single, so that hard connection would be wrong.
#1632 by entra
2019-04-04 at 13:00
Ahh, I wasn't aware of that usage. Thanks.
#1633 by bobjr2000
2019-04-04 at 19:19
When are going to bring back wholesome family entertainment tag, its really brightens the mood around here.
#1634 by beliar
2019-04-04 at 21:03
Dying Hero should also be under Terminal Illness.

Remarriage should be a child trait of Wedding, no ?
I think so. Done. (Though it's a trait, not a tag).

Is there maybe a way for Brief Branches to become less misleading?
Renaming the tag to "Brief Branches Only" should be enough. Right?

The newly created Dress Up Games should be Dress Up Game.
Any game that has a "focus" on a dress-up part is unlikely to be a visual novel. I think Changeable Clothes, which was pointed out by Usagi is enough for our purposes. I'm gonna reject it.

Also Stranded shouldn't be approved IMO since it's basically the same as Confinement.
Now that I look at it, the tags are indeed too similar. Unless someone comes up with a way to salvage the tag, I will delete it.
#1635 by sakurakoi
2019-04-04 at 21:32
Now that I look at it, the tags are indeed too similar. Unless someone comes up with a way to salvage the tag, I will delete it.

There sure are enough differences between being stranded and being confined, especially since being confined is a deliberate act while when stranded there are no unnatural measures in place to keep one wherever. Otherwise it turns into confinement.

Sci-Fi confinement a la different dimension should not be taken as example for when both are too similar. Since, again, even if one is stranded in a desert due to being abandoned or send to Australia back in the days, it is by no means confinement,traped, can't get out and similar unless there is a guard keeping one in whatever place.

Confinement is a situation which is kept up by man, Stranded is a situation which at most is initiated by man but often is a natural consequence of one's action and nature's arbitration.

Needless to say, even apart from the defining characteristics (which should be common sense...), works/characters themselves also deal with confinement and stranded differently, resulting in way different works aimed at a different target audience. Whereas stranded is primarily about survival and often waiting for rescue, confinement is about escape or reaching a goal first, especially since survival is not rarely assured anyway, like through existing "infrastructure".
#1636 by usagi
2019-04-06 at 16:27
Gang should be also child tag of Crime Family or Crime

Whereas stranded is primarily about survival and often waiting for rescue, confinement is about escape or reaching a goal first
I like this definition. It should be added to description if the tag would remain.

P.S.: as for denied Seduction tag - I can see it as more general tag with Reverse NTR as a child tag. If that will make this tag look more acceptable. I still hope what I said in #1614 was sensible enough - since I consider this tag very useful. The definition I would shorten to
"This novel has scenes where character(s) trying to seduce protagonist or arouse their lust outside of sex scenes (i.e. with provoking outfits, dirty talk, showing cleavage, spreading legs etc.).
Do not use this tag when provoking outfits are typical everyday clothes for the character and not weared with specific goal to seduce certain person or when seducing situation occurs accidentaly (shower peeping/panties flashing scenes) unless such scene was planned by the character deliberately before."

with alias "slutty behavior".Last modified on 2019-04-06 at 17:17
#1637 by alto
2019-04-07 at 13:31
Although one has "significant" in the description and the other does not, I believe Fictional Modern Day Japanese Island should probably be a child of Island.

Edit: Fictional Island Near Future Japan too I guess.Last modified on 2019-04-07 at 13:32
#1638 by beliar
2019-04-08 at 15:34
Gang should be also child tag of Crime Family or Crime
Put it under Crime. There are enough differences between a mere gang and a crime family, that I didn't feel confident making them parental tags.

I like this definition. It should be added to description if the tag would remain.
Chose to keep both tags. Added the description clarifier.

as for denied Seduction tag
I can see it actually working with the shortened description, though "slutty behaviour" is definitely not an alias, as it may be aimed at everyone, whereas this tag is supposed to represent efforts to seduce a specific person. I'll probably tentatively approve the tag later if no one objects.

@1637: Done.
#1639 by usagi
2019-04-08 at 16:03
I can see it actually working with the shortened description, though "slutty behaviour" is definitely not an alias, as it may be aimed at everyone, whereas this tag is supposed to represent efforts to seduce a specific person. I'll probably tentatively approve the tag later if no one objects.
Wow, yes! ))
Still, I think many aliases here serves the purpose to better understanding the meaning of the tag rather than to be perfect synonym. And "slutty behavior" is still justified enough alias IMO - though you have a point too considering that it can be related to NTR situations with your girlfriend, for example.
Nevertheless Slutty Heroine easily can try to seduce the protagonist - among others. She still can wear provoking outfits to seduce everyone - which contradicts with one of the definition's clause to some extent. But she can seduce him through other means too or combined with outfits and dirty talk, for example. The intent of the outfit clause was to exclude cases where some careless user would put this tag in a game where are lots of frivolously dressed girls and sex scenes - and nothing else. Therefore I deliberately used the phrase "goal to seduce certain person". Certain person - does not mean exactly the protagonist. What it means is that they are using clothes specifically (there should be non-h scene(s) where the purpose of wearing such clothes should be obvious - i.e. see last screen in My Daughter's Plaything) - not just wear them because it's convenient or something.
The seduction tag purpose is to filter out vns where seduction of protagonist is taking place. Who exactly trying to seduce the protagonist - experienced slut, pure innocent maid who begin to show unnatural behavior toward him, Yandere Heroine tryng to steal the protagonist from other girl, corrupted shotacon milf or just normal girl who is ready to use her blooming sexuality for person she likes - it's not important. What important is that the girl should be proactive and initiate her advances first in some kind of passively-agressive manner. And protagonist may not even thinking about it at first or be ready for it, expect it or he can even trying to resist. Because in most cases seduction (clothes, behavior etc.) would look amoral and/or unnatural for protagonist's common sense.
Hm, considering the above maybe extra line should be added after all. Something like "Do not mix it with flirting behavior when protagonist is already in relationship with person who tries to fuel his lust (i.e. as part of mating games between h-scenes)". Or just add the phrase to first line in definition "without being in relationship with him". I meant typical Naked Heroine with Apron scenes which usually are for couples already. Seduction is the process of conquest after all - and couple's interactions are not about it. Here is the wiki linkLast modified on 2019-04-09 at 00:47
#1640 by lunaterra
2019-04-08 at 19:34
Protagoinst with Facial Hair - "Protagonist" is spelled incorrectly.

I think Non-binary Protagonist Option should be a subtag of Non-Binary Characters.Last modified on 2019-04-08 at 19:43
#1641 by usagi
2019-04-09 at 22:16
For recently added Braless Heroine please add
"except type of clothing where bra is not compatible with it by design - swimsuits, leotards, bikini armors etc" phrase to last line. I think it's important enough clarification - else this tag can become superfluous in some cases. On a flip side you could make all such tags (swimsuits and leotards) as child tags of Braless Heroine instead - but it would be too much a hassle probably for rather niche fetish thing.Last modified on 2019-04-10 at 00:00
#1642 by beliar
2019-04-10 at 20:57
I have tinkered with the Seduction tag and currently it looks like this: Seduction of the Protagonist. It's not yet approved, but take a look at it, guys, and say what you think.

P.S. Also slightly changed the description for Braless Heroine, like suggested above.Last modified on 2019-04-10 at 20:58
#1643 by usagi
2019-04-10 at 21:51
Thanks. I like the description. It's a pity this tag can't be applied to both genders though (and "cock teasing" alias just limiting it even more). However it's just nature of this notion. Female and male seduction are principially different entities. While women entices men by luring them into action themselves and staying passive and presumably "innocent" at the same time - men prefers either rough and agressive approach on the brink of rape or lots of flattery, suggestions and sweet talk while women stays passive and succumbing to seduction means just not resisting it/doing anything at that time.
So it's impossible to combine both approaches in one tag unless you want very wordy definition. Also I am not an expert in otoge - so it's hard to tell how seduction situations there are common or uncommon - and how easy to single out them there from rape or Nanpa for example. Help of otoge expert is needed here ))
In any case I can see only one possible issue with the tag in it's current form - lack of gender equality. You can make it under Male Protagonist tag or lengthen the name to Seduction of Male Protagonist - or just leave it as it is. There are lots of other tags which are made specifically for male audience (i.e. Netorare) even without straight indication of it in their names after all.

P.S.: also there are BL games and it's.. I have no idea how would seduction worked there, tbh )) I suspect there just aren't any at all though )Last modified on 2019-04-10 at 22:20
#1644 by maggierobot
2019-04-11 at 00:55
I'm hardly an otomege expert, but eh I'll try to help.

I think it's pretty much how you described. Seduction in these games is usually either a rough approach or lots of sweet talk, not exactly what's in the description of the tag so guess this one will be gender specific. A work around for it to include everything could work, but it would just make the description way too long and messy tho.

Tbh I think it's usually pretty easy to distinguish it from rape/nanpa in otomege as those are usually more blatant and desperate (if that makes any sense)? But then again, JP otomege have quite a few passive protagonist, so Seduction of Protagonist would apply to most of them, I guess.

As for BL, they usually use the same seduction approach of otomege (it's still men doing it after all). It's not really uncommon, at least not when the protagonist is on the receiving end. But I think with that description, even if the name is Seduction of Male Protagonist no BL will be tagged (assuming people read the description).
#1645 by usagi
2019-04-11 at 02:44
Interesting. Question is - how rare or often such situations happens in otomeges/BL and how separate they are from h-scenes? If almost every vns of such genres contains that - gender-neutral Seduction tag would be meaningless - since seduction behavior in male-oriented vns is pretty rare. Because majority of such vns have "innocent sexually-passive girl" as built-in template or just straight-up pornfest without any subtle scenes - so this tag is pretty useful there. However if we will add otoges/BL where seduction is built-in template for example - it won't be as useful.Last modified on 2019-04-11 at 03:05
#1646 by usagi
2019-04-11 at 02:57
Haraguro Heroine should be child tag of Pretending Heroine
#1647 by maggierobot
2019-04-11 at 03:10
Hmmm, I would vote for otomege to be excluded from the tag, as "hero seducing protagonist" is far far more common than the other way around. Or at least every single game have at least one route were this applies, so it would be fairly unnecessary imho
#1648 by usagi
2019-04-15 at 17:32
I see. Well, then I would say "Seduction of Male Protagonist" is adequate solution - until I remembered that there can be some yurige with similar behaviour. For examble Escalation ~Kyouai no Fugue~ is close enough - not that it have seduction scenes though. There were lesbian rape and sadistic domination as far as I remember - still, in theory it's quite possible to have yurige with more subtle approach to corrupt "innocent lambs", so to speak ) So, quite a conundrum, yeah )
Then I postponed this matter for some time.. until I started to play in Sanguine Rose. And what perfect example it was! Then it occurred to me - the right idea what it should be to solve all these contradictions. Then I went and made new tag instead - so, lo and behold: Seductress Heroine
I hope this will be approved soon ^_^Last modified on 2019-04-15 at 17:36
#1649 by usagi
2019-04-22 at 01:25
Also, I created Male Friend tag since there are lots of cases where there is interesting friend character with important role in the story - but he is NOT fool or otaku or perverted etc.
However, you can leave it as it is OR - to free a bit more space and diminish redundancy in some cases - you can rename it to more general Friend tag, and move Combat Capable Friends, Foolish Friend, Otaku Friend, Perverted Friend and Group of Friends under it. In that case I think you should keep Female Friend as separate tag though - since majority of users would use Friend tag expecting that it should be male.Last modified on 2019-04-22 at 01:59


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