Tags suggestions/fixes

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#1751 by barfboy
2019-06-27 at 12:33
The description for Inbred Heroine

Makes no sense. Either both parents are related genetically or you're not inbred.
#1752 by lywzc
2019-06-27 at 14:22
Then I support the idea of renaming the tag to "Rabbitgirl Heroine" to avoid ambiguity. 3 certain mistags out of 10 surely is not great.

The NOTE in the same plain text as the main description means no NOTE for some people. And people probably won't consult the tag page itself when tagging.

As of now the NOTE section of Bunnygirl Heroine uses the wrong term of Usagimimi rather than Usamimi and it links to the wrong page Kemonomimi Heroine rather than Usamimi Heroine

Oh, and if you rename the tag, the description of Usamimi Heroine should also be changed accordingly.Last modified on 2019-06-27 at 14:57
#1753 by savagetiger
2019-06-29 at 13:12
Past Setting in a Fictional World
Some bad grammar, shouldn't the description be more like, "This game is set in an imaginary world whose timeframe resembles our worlds past."
Same weird wording in Modern Day Setting in a Fictional World and Future Setting in a Fictional World.
#1754 by sterelok123
2019-06-29 at 19:35
I tried to add a new tag called: stuck in meatwall as a child tag of Stuck-in-Wall Sex.

I noticed some minor problems in the description. In case you wished to accept the tag, kindly replace the description with the one below:

"A game with this tag has a scene in which one or more people are restrained in an organic wall or floor.

The parts restrained could be absorbed (temporarily or permanently) by the material or not.

It can be a sub-category of vore.

It doesn't necessarily have to involve sex."
#1755 by skorpiondeath
2019-06-30 at 14:59
Pegging should be under Anal Sex like his counterpart trait Pegging
#1756 by namingmegently
2019-07-01 at 22:05
Two questions about the Reverse NTR tag:

1. Does the protagonist really have to be male?
2. Is the hero(ine) that the description's #1 rule is referencing, the hero(ine) that's "stealing" the protagonist or is it the one that's being "stolen from"?

Been wondering what to tag Ozmafia!! and Koezaru wa Akai Hana with, but this tag seems like it should fit... I don't know anything about NTR though so just going off this description.

To clarify, it's when the protagonist is already on a hero(ine)'s route yet a different hero(ine) "steals" the protagonist away from the first hero(ine) (permanently).Last modified on 2019-07-01 at 22:13
#1757 by beliar
2019-07-01 at 22:24
1. The protagonist shouldn't necessarily be male despite the fact that the description is formulated to be male protagonist-centric. I feel that is another thing that can be fixed while we are at it.
For example I tagged The Fall of Juliet with this tag, and that game has a female protagonist. Her significant other can be stolen by another woman in certain conditions. It's very much the reverse NTR, despite not fitting the current description to a T.
2. Once again, the description is imperfect, but the heroine mentioned is supposed to be the one whom the protagonist is stolen from.

My suggestion is to fix the description by changing the first sentence to: "Games where a hero/heroine or other side character steals the male significant other away from another hero/heroine." and "heroine must be close" exchanging with "hero(ine) must be close", which immediately fixes all the current issues with the tag.

Edit: Going by the description in your last sentence, the tag fits the bill to a T. On the other hand, maybe not.
Normally Reverse NTR is all about the male (who is either the protagonist or the significant other) being stolen by another female (or rarely male). In this case the female protagonist is stolen, which would be Reverse Lesbian NTR (assuming a female does the stealing too) - a tag we don't have. This is a rare overlap between two already rare tags. Frankly, I'm unsure about this situation.Last modified on 2019-07-01 at 22:34
#1758 by namingmegently
2019-07-01 at 22:41
I probably should have left the "(ine)" part in hero out as it's actually the female protagonist being "stolen" from one male hero to another male hero.Last modified on 2019-07-01 at 22:42
#1759 by lunaterra
2019-07-01 at 22:43
Can't speak for Koezaru wa Akai Hana, but here's the situation in Ozmafia as I understand it (admittedly I haven't played it, I'm going off descriptions from people who have played it):

There's a "love triangle" mechanic where if you pick one of the three main heroes, then partway through the route, you can switch to another route. However, the point at which you can switch is before the MC and the LI start officially dating, so it's not "cheating" per se.

ETA: ninja'dLast modified on 2019-07-01 at 22:44
#1760 by namingmegently
2019-07-01 at 22:51
Actually in Ozmafia!!, the protagonist and the first hero are officially dating for a short while before the second hero tries to "steal" her from the first hero, which causes immense jealousy and conflict that becomes completely forgotten after the protagonist decides to either stay with the first hero or instead date the second hero. The first hero is whoever (of the Oz trio) that the protagonist has been spending the most Sundays with and the second hero is whoever (of the Oz trio) that she's been leaning towards with her choices outside of Sunday.Last modified on 2019-07-01 at 23:45
#1761 by barfboy
2019-07-02 at 06:19
In Group vs Out Group.

So, we need to face the consequences of accepting Sex with Others and all its child traits.

Because I don't think games like
Bokura no Himitsu Kichi Daisakusen ~Escape Hitonatsu no Omoide~
Yagai Gakushuu 3
Let's la Go! Bokura no Jiyuu Kenkyuu
(And in fact many Complets games are like this)
Really don't work as the protagonist is involved in group settings with the girls who are themselves involved with other boys all over the place. There's no 'relationships' in the standard sense.
Bokura no Himitsu Kichi Daisakusen ~Escape Hitonatsu no Omoide~
has a definite in group situation. Three boys, three girls, all of them share sex with each other all the time, no favorites. It's a bit shocking when to get cash the girls go out and prostitute themselves for spending money while the boys help set it up. So it definitely qualifies but not because of the original setting where the girls and boys have an in group dynamic going on because the formal relationship between them is open.

Lolipara! ~Osanaki Sei no Hanazono~
is especially difficult..... who's the protagonist? The nameless big brother? He's just an observer, watching while his sister has sex with her boyfriend. That game features consensual partner swapping. Does it belong?
Does partner swapping even really belong either? Koukan no Toriko-tachi... is all about two best friends sharing their girlfriends with each other. It's not at all shocking they're sleeping with each other's partners but it would be if one of them suddenly went out and had sex with a stranger, which never happens. The girls are faithful to their partners. Is swinging supposed to be included in the tag?

What about any of these
Third-person Narrative
Because if any feature cheating, boy I don't know what to tell you.

I think we need some explanation on in group/out group for this tag to work
#1762 by rampaa
2019-07-02 at 07:09
I think we need some explanation on in group/out group for this tag to work.
No. The tag is simple and clear enough. The type of relationship they have or consent is not a factor to begin with. Does a girl have sex with a man who's not the protagonist? Then the tag applies. Simple as that.

All the games you've listed (apart from Yagai Gakushuu 3) has a single protagonist (that is, according to current info we have about them on VNDB) so it's quite obvious that the tag applies. For games that have No Protagonist, the tag would not apply because the very definition of "Others" comes from the assumption of there being a protagonist to begin with. So there's nothing confusing about that either.

Is swinging supposed to be included in the tag?
Yes, it's one of its child tags for that reason. Well, its child tag's child tag, to be more pedantic.

VNs that have Multiple Protagonists might be a little bit tricky. In case a gal sleeps with multiple male protagonists, technically the tag might not apply, even though it probably should. But I am not sure if this is a common thing enough for us to worry about.Last modified on 2019-07-02 at 07:19
#1763 by barfboy
2019-07-02 at 07:38
Look, it's a bad tag that shouldn't exist and no amount of finagling is going to make it work. There's so many problems with it. Not the least of which the existence of a 'protagonist' (and what the hell is the point of the lesbianism bit? Onee-chan wa Kushizashikou!? ~Atashi no Kui de Tsuranuite Ageru~ is A okay because she gets stolen by another girl, yay!)

I know it has its champions and I get what they're trying to go for but that doesn't mean it works. Sure, you can be pedantic as you say and say, 'any time there is a game with a protagonist, and ..." and so on and so on. But we already have
so really there is no point to its existence. It just gets silly. A person shocked that a girl has sex with someone not her lover will be just as upset by Kurokami Seiso-chan Monogatari -Kareshi ja Nai Hito de Iki Kurutte Ecchi Daisuki ni Natte Shimau Joshikousei-
as they would by Triangle Blue
but it gets a pass because the protagonist is a girl!!! Hurray?

Since tags are being fixed this is one that needs to be 'fixed'
#1764 by rampaa
2019-07-02 at 07:43
It won't become a bad tag just because you want to split hairs about it. This tag has been discussed and many people said they would find it very useful.Last modified on 2019-07-02 at 07:44
#1765 by namingmegently
2019-07-02 at 10:31
I guess instead of NTR, what I'm looking for is a tag for when instead of branching off of the common route, somewhere between the beginning and middle of a certain hero(ine)'s route branches off to a different hero(ine)'s route that can only be reached in this manner. Would such a feature be evident from using the Enforced Playing Order tag?

I know it would, technically speaking, be considered a "common" route, but it doesn't seem quite right to label it as such when at the very beginning of the vn all hero(in)es were equally strangers to the protagonist, but then the protagonist (through game choices) ends up either dating or married to the 1st hero(ine) in their own specific route before the branch to the 2nd hero(ine) occurs.Last modified on 2019-07-02 at 10:56
#1766 by barfboy
2019-07-02 at 11:00
I apologize, I don't mean to split hairs. I'm trying to point out that useless stupid tag is stupid and useless. And people can say they find it useful all they want. They're wrong.

Look, all I want is for people to admit that it doesn't make any sense and delete the tag. Is that so hard?

I can keep pointing out how wrong it is all day.
Because we love NTR and rape
Machi Gurumi no Wana ~Hakudaku ni Mamireta Shitai~
so long as she's the protagonist.
and it's fun watching your girlfriend have sex with other men
so long as it's virtual reality! It's like i before e except after c. When a rule has too many exceptions ... it really isn't a rule.
#1767 by rampaa
2019-07-02 at 11:36
What point are you exaclty making? You spewed some nonesense about "In Group vs Out Group" thingy. Even though it was not a vague issue for the tag at all.

Then you said something about Netorare tag being enough, even though it isn't (at least for some people who aren't you). Give the link a read for more details.

And lastly, you began listing some VNs in the hopes that the tag not applying to them would make the tag useless somehow? Even if this tag's not applying to them was a bad thing -which it is not- that would not demean the tag itself (at least not enough to warrant its deletion). So please cut me a slack with that petty false dilemma of yours.

The tag does its job. No one is misusing it. There's a clear demand for it. Only problem I see here is your obnoxious attitude.
#1768 by usagi
2019-07-03 at 15:05
Nukige shouldn't be under High Sexual Content. While there are lots of nukiges with high number of h-scenes - there are enough with quite moderate or even low amount of h-scenes (especially if we are talking about short or very short doujinshi nukiges - i.e. Rina no Chiisana Oka). But more importantly - they are things related to two absolutely different concepts. One tag about type of story design - other is about mathematical number. They shouldn't be related in any case.
Moreover there are enough nukiges with exceptionally high number of h-scenes or high frequency (Starless or Yagai Gakushuu) which should be distinguished among other nukiges too. With current set up where high number of h-scenes is implied with any nukige tag by default - it's impossible.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 16:14
#1769 by bobjr2000
2019-07-03 at 17:14
I can agree with Usagi with nukige. Had same discussion about Boku to Koi Suru Ponkotsu Akuma, it has as many H-scenes as a yuzusoft game but yuzu isn't label a nukige for obvious reasons. Storywise though you could label it but doesn't have a high amount sex scenes compared to other nukige titles.
#1770 by warfoki
2019-07-03 at 17:23
I disagree. It's like saying porn shouldn't be under high sexual content, makes no sense. High Sexual Content is not compared to the genre, but compared to VNs in general. I've yet to see a single nukige that doesn't have at least like 40-50% of its playtime as straight up sex scenes. On the other hand, there are stories that have a lot of sex scenes, but the focus is not actually on it, therefore not nukige. Nukiges, by definition (for a game to be a nukige it has to be focused on the porn) have a high sexual content ratio, but not all stories wit a lot of sex scenes are necessarily nukiges. There might be an extremely low amount of exceptions to this rule, but If I remove Nukige from under High Sexual Content, all we are doing is necessitating double tagging for 99,9999999999999999999999% of the Nukiges out there, and that's just messy and ineffective. As such Nukige stays where it is.
#1771 by warfoki
2019-07-07 at 23:58
Question: are we applying a "closed doors" policy on game engine tags, similar to sex positions? I'm asking because while I personally see no issue with Ikura GDL Engine, I also haven't the foggiest if it was (seems to be an old, outdated engine) massively used or not and I can see that other game engines were refused as tags earlier.

Kinda torn on this one: it could be a useful piece of info to have, but these are release specific, so adding tags for this consistently doesn't seem to be ideal...
#1772 by yorhel
2019-07-08 at 05:27
Uh, yeah, might want to hold on with the game engine tags, I'll see if I can get this issue implemented in the next few weeks as that''ll be a much better solution.
#1773 by warfoki
2019-07-08 at 09:36
Well, that decided that then.
#1774 by skorpiondeath
2019-07-08 at 11:40
@yorhel: OOT but in line with your last post.
Since you are dealing with the possibility of an "Engine" field is it possible to have implemented a "Cup Size" field on the characters "General Info" tab?
We started a thread ages ago t7405 but it derailed since subjectivity of breast size decisional factor won.
The field could be used instead just to put official developer info about cup size (even if it doesnt resemble reality) instead of using the "Description" field.
#1775 by warfoki
2019-07-08 at 12:09
I mean, while that is a possibility, I think the Cup Size traits are fine for that: they should be used only for official data and are search-able. Yeah, we do from-to ranges on them instead of having a trait for every single one, but considering how hentai cupsizes rarely have anything to do with irl cupsizes, it works well enough.


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