Tags suggestions/fixes

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#1826 by fuukanou
2019-10-19 at 15:02
#1824, thanks, I guess we can call it nursing handjob then
#1825, thanks, we can deal with the traits when the overall tag gets through.

I'd like to also justify this tag as being what 69 is to a simple blowjob. There's this _mutual_ element to it, while admittedly it may not be masturbation of primary sexual organs, I feel it still counts. It's not one sided like adult-breast feeding is, and by just double tagging it 'adult breast feeding' & 'handjob', it doesn't cover that mutuality and it's impossible to tell if there's a nursing handjob or if the two things are separate. There is clearly popularity of this from the fact that I know a good number of characters just from my last 20 odd VNs and it's clearly a 'thing' (i.e. not a random ad-hoc position) as it's consistently depicted over all of the characters I have mentioned before and so there must be fans of it being specifically like this (apart from myself).

What I'd like to exclude from the tag is any scene where the protagonist is not lying down, ideally it'd be exclusive to just lap pillow use but you can do it without by having the heroine reclining and partially lying down, so I guess that's pretty much there too.

So for the tag Adult Breast Feeding, we need to remove the first and third screenshot, or crop them so they don't clash with this tag. I will soon find some replacements that don't infringe on the new tag.
There is no current nursing handjob tag to be dealt with.
The new tag would come under Adult Breast Feeding and Handjob.Last modified on 2019-10-19 at 15:14
#1827 by skorpiondeath
2019-10-19 at 15:43
@fuukanou: you get green light from me, all you wrote made sense. The only thing I don't agree is about cropping images...since is altering the reality while the first example being from a famous VN can be recognized anyway. You can find plenty of VN with pregnant characters and 'normal' adult breast feeding.

I'd like to also justify this tag as being what 69 is to a simple blowjob
You just raised another (minimal) issue here. 69 as it's used in VNDB is about assuming the 69 position. You can find lot of usage where there's not the mutual oral stimulation that it's actually what makes a 69 a 69.Last modified on 2019-10-19 at 15:47
#1828 by rampaa
2019-10-24 at 05:29
I've proposed Homosexual Male/Female Protagonist tags, again. I ask mods to have a look at t3617.1785 and t3617.1788 before calling it a "useless fork". It is not a useless fork. They might have been considered useless if the character filters were more powerful but they are not. (t12970.9)
#1829 by warfoki
2019-10-24 at 10:45
While I REALLY don't like combined tags like this, I have to adit that you do have a point and as such I have restored these two tags.Last modified on 2019-10-24 at 11:20
#1830 by rampaa
2019-10-24 at 11:11
Thank you. I've managed to misspell homosexual as homesexual in Homesexual Male Protagonist. So its name and description should be corrected.

Homosexual Protagonist should be made not-taggable. Seme Protagonist and Uke Protagonist should be child tags of Homesexual Male Protagonist.
#1831 by warfoki
2019-10-24 at 11:20
Fixed all of that.
#1832 by [deleted]
2019-10-24 at 12:08
Would it be possible to make the changes mentioned in t3617.1822 for Jump to Last Choice?

Also, why aren't the tagged VNs showing up under it? Why has it been made "Not searchable"?Last modified on 2019-10-24 at 12:16
#1833 by warfoki
2019-10-24 at 14:42
It's not searchable because when you filled out the the tag application form you didn't check the "searchable" option, simple as that. :P Fixed now. Changed the name and the alias. Not going to add the extra line though, since pretty much nobody will read it and tag strength should NEVER have a specific meaning beside how relevant the users feel the tag is. This is because most people just leave it at the default value (2), so making tag strength have any special meaning would not be followed, and as such would be misinforming.
#1834 by lunaterra
2019-10-25 at 16:50
Seme Protagonist and Uke Protagonist shouldn't be subtags of Homosexual Male Protagonist--"seme" and "uke" just refer to the role that the MC takes in sex scenes, not sexual orientation. There are a few BL VNs with bisexual protagonists (eg No, Thank You!!!, Eden-ui Neomeo) which obviously shouldn't be showing up in results for a tag for gay protagonists...Last modified on 2019-10-25 at 16:51
#1835 by maggierobot
2019-10-25 at 17:41
to further the point that #1834 makes, there are some games with bisexual protagonist there that aren't exclusively BL, so you *have* female romance/sex options too, like Fukai ni Nemuru Oujo no Abaddon and Seeds of Chaos. but since it features gay sex scenes it get those tags.

I know, it's only half wrong but still wrong.Last modified on 2019-10-25 at 17:46
#1836 by eacil
2019-10-25 at 21:54
Being bisexual makes you homosexual... per se. It's not mutually exclusive. So, why wouldn't you want to take a look at Abaddon and bisexuals? It's not like those searching that tag were gays themselves, they are mostly fujoshi. You can exclude them anyway and, no, I don't think it's half wrong, it is just half the truth.
#1837 by warfoki
2019-10-25 at 22:43
Being bisexual makes you homosexual... per se.

Not by any definition of the word I know of.

Removed those two from under Homosexual Male Protagonist.
#1838 by beliar
2019-10-25 at 22:47
Yeah, Eacil, that was definitely a brain fart. No definition of a bisexual person also makes them homosexual. That was WTF levels of mental gymnastics you engaged in... o.0
#1839 by warfoki
2019-10-25 at 23:01
To give an analogy: chlorine is lethal poison if consumed, even in smaller doses. Therefore natrium-chloride is a lethal poison as well. Oh, wait, that's table salt...
#1840 by eacil
2019-10-26 at 00:37
If that can allow Warfoki to blow some steam on me for stressing him out in the other thread, I am happy to serve.

Homo = same (yeah, not man), hetero = other/different. Bisexuals love same sex and a different sex. They are both homo and hetero. How am I farting here? I am not saying that you should put homo and hetero as children of bi. If sexes and genders didn't become so complicated, and bi by the same occasion, maybe you could have? I guess not because bis can not like men and women with the same intensity, but then, hetero don't like every woman/man too. Well, it wouldn't have made any sense for tags as what you want to find are characters that have relationship with both, in the same continuity or on different routes, etc, but at some point, the choice is given. However, irl, you can be bi and have relationships only with, let's say, men, during all your life. Bis are not individual who have some impulse in doing threesome or who need to sustain an appetite in both men and women because they wouldn't be happy or something. It just means the target of your sexual orientation is wider.

You can take homosexuality as simply meaning "to love people of the same sex". This doesn't contradict bisexuality. That's why I say it's half the truth as in lying by omission. If a bi says they are homosexual, I don't see how they are wrong, they are just omitting half the truth. They won't define themself as homosexual but context might make them consent to this part of the whole situation. If things were compartmentalized like you both wants me to believe it, homosexuals wouldn't be able to love bis. No, it doesn't work that way.

If we come back to our tags, if a homosexual plays Abaddon, he will not like the routes were bisexual characters are shagging the girls, but he will have no problem with them doing the boys. So, what's the problem with having bisexuals uke and seme when searching for homosexual male protagonist? Like I said, if you want pure homosexuals, you exclude the bisexual tag.

Maybe I am wrong but I always saw homosexual as a tendency that can be shared with other tendencies or used strictly when defining your sexuality on your CV. You just have better names to take every tendency into account. I say "tendency" but I know it's not a matter of addition and being bisexual can be achieved by a change in paradigm i.e. you don't see men and women first but human beings.

I mean, ok, that won't be a good reference given the people involved, but how many heterosexual men asking if they are homosexual just because they fapped on otokonoko/futas/newhalves? Thousands? At least. Why aren't they asking if they are bisexuals, then? Yeah, maybe they think that's mutually exclusive, and can't be both, but that's a lot of the same kind of error. Well, I don't think they are wrong because they are just talking about one of their tendency, one side of the continuum.
#1841 by takato
2019-10-26 at 08:20
Tags > Theme > Sexual Content > Darker Sexual Contents > Guro

Please change tag to "Eroguro" to make it correct.

The description says "Guro is short for 'Erotic Grotesque'." But that's just wrong. 'Guro' is short for 'grotesque;' it has nothing to do with erotics. 'Eroguro' is short for 'erotic grotesque' instead.Last modified on 2019-10-26 at 08:20
#1842 by [deleted]
2019-10-28 at 20:26
Regarding the Skip to Choices tag, could it have the "Can not be directly applied to visual novels" property enabled, forcing use of its child tags instead?Last modified on 2019-10-28 at 22:34
#1843 by eacil
2019-10-30 at 01:04
@skorpiondeath, now that you are a tagmod, can you agree to this: link? *never forget*
#1844 by skorpiondeath
2019-10-30 at 20:38
@eacil: Just to clarify I'm helping out warfoki on the things I'm comfortable with, not taking is place nor, reverting stuff he already decided for.
This topic you bring up has already been discussed, there is already a denial from warfoki.
If it was something I feel comfortable with I could try to bring back that up for discussion but I'm not.

@namingmegently: why should "skip to choices" not be directly applied?

@takato: actually 'Eroguro' is just another shorthand for 'Ero guro nansensu' being the artistic movement originated around 1920 in Japan, but it's frequently shortened as 'Guro' or 'Hentai Guro' in the context of Hentai. 'Guro' is short for 'grotesque' only if you don't contexualize it to where you find the term. You can find the shortened term 'Guro' used in many other hentai site as a shorthand for 'Eroguro'.Last modified on 2019-10-30 at 20:39
#1845 by eacil
2019-10-31 at 07:15
So much time and money to make you infiltrate the tagmod team and you dare to rebel! How about you pay me back how much all those click farmers costed me? How do you think those 20k edits landed on your account while you were asleep? Aren't you the one who came to me, telling me "we need to dethrone that incompetent wuss, he denied too many tags of mine, it's enough, he has to go! *bang on the table*"? What about our dream of seeing Those H-scenes Are So Damn Fucking Long, For Hipsters and Moeshit Be Warned tags finally on vndb? :((((

Joke aside (because I am joker), yes, the tag was denied but on a lack of understanding. The discussion was underway but it stopped after I wrote a new draft.

The goal is to tag "anime" artstyle like (beware I took the first things I found, quickly looking at the screenshots):
Akai Hitomi no Serafu
Chakku! Tsuiteru!!
Chaos Baby Yoshimi ~Takase Haruna Hen~
Exodus Guilty
Juusou Koujo Metal Princess
#1846 by skorpiondeath
2019-10-31 at 08:59
How about you pay me back how much all those click farmers costed me?
I'm sorry to explain to guys like you new to politics that there is no granted return of investment.

Joke aside (because I am joker)
"Joking loop" are you a joker about the joke aside..meaning you are telling the truth? Because is that or you are explaining the joke and explain a joke is the saddest part of joking and the primary offense to my intelligence, feel lucky I don't take legal provisions on you.

we need to dethrone that incompetent wuss
"Wuss" is a sissy word for people like you, if I remeber correctly I used "fuck*** i***t". Just telling this because you are ruining my reputation and because I always tell the truth (because I'm a liar).

Those H-scenes Are So Damn Fucking Long, For Hipsters and Moeshit Be Warned
Totally agree next step is presidency of VNDB. Yorhel is just implementing some new features with the few bucks he is left from Patreon fundings after putting me in his payroll and paying alimony to his 3 asians children.
1) new president badge for important people like myself
2) new css for text. Writings are the same color of background, you need to mouse hover to be able to read
3) reply button of dissident, whiny people such as yourself removed
4) picture of my sister in the shower privately sent to the first 10 dissident guys that can reply without the "reply" button injecting a submit button to the html, answering through a javascript "Form Data" submit will also remove one letter from the username.

Keep supporting me eacil. Make VNDB great again!

*(about discussion I'll wait for warfoki answer because I don't know if this "anime" artstyle is needed)Last modified on 2019-10-31 at 09:33
#1847 by warfoki
2019-10-31 at 09:35
Well... this discussion took a turn for the weird.

So, that flat shading tag... I'm still not a great fan of it to be honest, but the "new" description makes a lot more sense than the original so I suppose I should let it through. Should we make a tag for gradation as well?
#1848 by eacil
2019-10-31 at 10:12
No, no gradation tag. It would tag the majority of VN or be a complete PITA to use in case of Gradation Only.

I have one change to ask if you allow me: the Only should apply to CG/tachie separately, not to the whole VN. I mean that the whole CG/tachie should use flat tints, but if the tachie are using that art style and the event CG another art style, or if half the CG are in that art style and the rest uses gradation, you should use the tag's weight to illustrate the ratio. That's why tags' weight are here for and that should allow more latitude for the tag (not to say you would have to check all the CG to apply it).

Instead of "The base shading of this VN only uses flat tints in opposition to gradation.", we would have "This VN has CG or tachie whose base shading uses flat tints exclusively, in opposition to gradation."
And in case you wonder, I can't think of a single VN that suddenly would use Flat Tints Only for a couple of CG (or even for half of it).
#1849 by [deleted]
2019-10-31 at 12:38
why should "skip to choices" not be directly applied?

Because Skip to Choices is completely covered by its two child tags, Jump to Prior Choices and Jump to Next Choice. There will probably be at least some taggers who think that applying a tag strength of "3" for Skip to Choices can convey the exact same thing as applying both child tags, and so will opt for the former while neglecting the latter. This is bad because not everyone uses the same system for vote strength, and there are plenty of taggers who have voted a "2" for the Skip to Choices tag on at least one VN that contains both Jump to Prior Choices and Jump to Next Choice. So we can't rely on tag strength alone to convey this vital information, hence why its child tags are necessary, and the only way to force people to use them is to make Skip to Choices unable to be directly applied to VNs.
#1850 by skorpiondeath
2019-10-31 at 13:37
@namingmegently: There are cases where parent tag even if covered by children tags can be useful to add anyway before you read VN. For example Netorare can be applied when VN is announced but not yet ready to read.
But this case seems different and I don't see anything wrong in your reasoning so I just made it not applicable to VN as you requested.