Systematized?

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#1 by binfujiwara
2013-06-24 at 22:14
< report >Hi, silence.

I wanted to ask you about your "systematized" character images (200x300p). Is this a system of your own creation? Because the only system I know on this site is 256x300p. I use this system because it's the one that yorhel (?) had set here from the beginning. BTW, I think is more convenient because it's wider.

And why did you upload your system over mine? (the site's standard char image size, 256x300, white background like on Getchu) If you want to upload better images than mine, please consider uploading them at the maximum size this site allows, i.e. 256x300.
#2 by silence
2013-06-25 at 12:28
< report >
The image will be cropped to 256x300, but it is recommended to do this cropping manually before uploading to ensure that all character images of the same VN have the same width. This consistency looks better on the character listing on the VN page.
So, where did you see, that the picture <<MUST BE>> 256x300? From this rule I only see that it should not be larger than this size. And even that is more like recommendation. Thus, "your" system collapsed.
In addition, under the systematization I had in mind the necessity to make all the pictures the same size and with identical angles. When you want to add your picture, try to adhere the same size or just replace the old pictures with "your" size. Otherwise it will look just as bad as it was before my interference. Another reason why I had a full right to replace your images is because I used sprites. According to the rules, they have a higher priority than any other pictures. If you're wondering why I crop the portraits to the waist, I will say. First, I think it's more important to pay more attention to the character's face and chest. Everything else can be learned from the traits. Second, we are not always able to find a character picture in full view. This means that some of the characters will be in full view, while others are not. In other words, this also relates to the systematization. By the way, the size 256x300 looks silly. Characters are not square, so those 56 pixels, because of which you are suffering so much, will only contain a useless void. Oh, and look at your pictures. 223x300, 225x300, 245x300... So, WTF? Is that "your" systematization?Last modified on 2013-06-25 at 12:31
#3 by yorhel
2013-06-25 at 13:22
< report >@silence: A less hostile reply would have been welcome. There's no need to get all defensive here.
#4 by silence
2013-06-25 at 14:30
< report >Sorry. I 'love' binfujiwara so much, that I can't help it. it's just personal.
By the way, what's your opinion about the "right" size of portraits?
#5 by binfujiwara
2013-06-25 at 15:44
< report >Your pics cut off parts of hair and hands from the sides. The waist cut doesn't matter to me, everybody can have their own preference about the parts that are visible on their pictures. Be it the whole character from head to toes, or just the head.
I'm ok with the size of your pics, but only if you don't cut off parts of hair and body of the character. Also, the more parts and unique traits of the character are visible, the better. That's why I use the maximum size available for character images, i.e. 256x300. But you, obviously, don't care that much about such small details.

Now, about me not following my own" rules". As I use the pics available online, it happens that I can't get the best quality. And sometimes I can find only pics that are smaller than 256x300p.
Also, I've started adding 256x300 pix only a while ago. The ones that don't have that sizes are either very old characters that I've added, or I couldn't find any white background images of them online.

What do you exactly have against me? What did I ever do to you? Edit wars are not that serious to you, now are they?

And yorhel, what do you think about the picture size issue?Last modified on 2013-06-25 at 15:46
#6 by yorhel
2013-06-25 at 16:53
< report >
But you, obviously, don't care that much about such small details.
There was no need for this insult. You're only making a civilised discussion impossible with such an irrelevant remark.

As for the "right" size: Both of your solutions work perfectly fine, as long as it's consistent with the other characters linked to the VN. There's no particular need to stick with the maximum allowed size for character art, but there's nothing against doing so, either.
#7 by silence
2013-06-26 at 14:00
< report >
Your pics cut off parts of hair and hands from the sides
I crop them within reason, carefully choosing the size and a scale of the image. And I'm doing this because I believe that it is better to show the character close-up. I don't see any reason to show the whole character, because the image will be too small, and we gain nothing. Also, I'm not going to revise my system just because of the fact that some of the characters have too bulky hairstyle. What makes you think that someone except for you even cares about cropped hair tips or elbows ?

the more parts and unique traits of the character are visible, the better. That's why I use the maximum size available for character images, i.e. 256x300
Considering that you're trying to fit a full-sized human into the picture, the maximum size of your image makes no sense, because we can't see the details anyway.

Also, I've started adding 256x300 pix only a while ago. The ones that don't have that sizes are either very old characters that I've added, or I couldn't find any white background images of them online.
That's why I'm extracting the sprites from the vn, cropping them, resizing them, changing the background color to white, and carefully editing the edges to avoid making them blurry. After that I'm replacing you pics, stolen from Internet, with mine. Any problems?

What do you exactly have against me? What did I ever do to you? Edit wars are not that serious to you, now are they?
You are the one who provokes the edit wars. I have a lot to tell you, but in that case, this fight will never end. In short, there is Russian idiom: "Bear's service", so it's about you. I guess I'm not the only one who thinks so.
#8 by binfujiwara
2013-06-29 at 15:03
< report >
But you, obviously, don't care that much about such small details.
That wasn't an insult, yorhel. Just an assumption.

@silence
Whatev. I'll just let you do what you want. I don't care anymore.

As for the "right" size: Both of your solutions work perfectly fine, as long as it's consistent with the other characters linked to the VN. There's no particular need to stick with the maximum allowed size for character art, but there's nothing against doing so, either.


I'll follow this, and I'd very appreciate it if you will too.

Also, please, don't my pictures to your "systematized" ones just because the crop or pose or clothing of the character is different. Only if the quality is poor. Because I think it's the only reasonable excuse to replace another editor's image.

Considering that you're trying to fit a full-sized human into the picture, the maximum size of your image makes no sense, because we can't see the details anyway.
That's not true at all. I saw others do that, but not me. And stop trying to shatter my competence with small and false accuses. Also, most of pictures are neat and clear; you can see all of the details just like on yours.

stolen from Internet
Lol, like you don't "steal" all of your vn sprites from illegally DL'd works. I can't imagine you *buy* all of the novels I ever edited and systematize the chars I added to them. Also, if I bought all of the novels I edited, I'd have spent too much time on purchasing them solely for the sprites, as I don't know JP good enough to play a VN in Japanese and fully enjoy it.

Bear's Service
You know Russian as well? Then I guess I'll see you on other wars related to me editing Russian novels too... *sigh*
Bear's Service, huh? 16765 edits are definitely *not* bear's service.

BTW, I didn't start this war, you did. I just came here and asked politely about what you did and why did it. See t4260.1

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks so.
ORLY.
#9 by silence
2013-06-29 at 17:03
< report >
Whatev. I'll just let you do what you want. I don't care anymore.
This is exactly what I wanted to hear.

I'll follow this, and I'd very appreciate it if you will too.
Of course. But this phrase is not giving us a clear answer, so I don't understand why are you so happy. Everyone will just understand it in their favor, that's all.

That's not true at all. I saw others do that, but not me.
OK, then what's this? Why I can't see any details in her face? No nose, no mouth. Just the eyes, a little.

Also, most of pictures are neat and clear; you can see all of the details just like on yours.
Dude, are you ignoring my comments on purpose? I bet I never wrote about the picture clarity. I'm talking only about the scale.

Lol, like you don't "steal" all of your vn sprites from illegally DL'd works. I can't imagine you *buy* all of the novels I ever edited and systematize the chars I added to them.
You did not understand me, again. I don't care about legality. I just want to say that I borrow the pictures from the original source, with the best quality and the maximum possible size. After that, I spend a lot of time editing these portraits. And you're just taking a pictures posted in the internet, cuting them, and thinking that the job is done. I understand that not everyone wants to spend a lot of time, messing with this stuff, and I wouldn't have anything against your images as a temporary solution of the problem. But you believe that your pictures are perfect, and no one has the right to change them. I just cannot forgive you this. You're wrong.

Then I guess I'll see you on other wars related to me editing Russian novels too....
Don't worry, I'm not interested in non-Japanese fakes.

Bear's Service, huh? 16765 edits are definitely *not* bear's service.
Exactly this number indicates that you're working not for the quality but for the quantity. How many of these edits did you made on the basis of your own knowledge? How many vns are you finished? What do you know about the characters you edit?

BTW, I didn't start this war, you did
I can't do anything with the fact that you do not want accept my arguments, and I believe this dispute is meaningless. In the end, I'll stand by my opinion.Last modified on 2013-06-29 at 17:04
#10 by binfujiwara
2013-06-30 at 11:50
< report >
Both of your solutions work perfectly fine, as long as it's consistent with the other characters linked to the VN. There's no particular need to stick with the maximum allowed size for character art, but there's nothing against doing so, either.
This states perfectly clear that both of us are doing equally (yes, equally) good.
as long as it's consistent with the other characters
That's why I think that we should stay off each other's way in the char images. Can you please agree with me on this one?

Dude, are you ignoring my comments on purpose? I bet I never wrote about the picture clarity. I'm talking only about the scale.
I think I ignored that one by mistake, sorry. About the scale, I think that neither of us should change the way we work. Let's just stay off each other's way *on this subject*.

OK, then what's this? Why I can't see any details in her face? No nose, no mouth.
I can see everything just fine on that image.

Exactly this number indicates that you're working not for the quality but for the quantity. How many of these edits did you made on the basis of your own knowledge?
About the way I add characters here.
I do work for quantity, but not because I'm lazy or something. I just think that this character database should be first of all *expanded*. So most of the chars I'm adding are not exactly what you can call "complete characters".
Most of the chars I add are based NOT on my playing experience (obviously), but on the info I find online. However, this isn't such an easy job like you wrote above. I also spend days and weeks on editing one single novel's characters!
I try to do my best and add everything I found out about the specific character I'm adding. I also try to find *game sprites* just like you do, but online. I also edit lots of old games, so I'm sometimes bound to use CG or lower quality images. I know that not all of my images are perfect, but those with the white background, like Suika's, are as good as yours. So in my opinion, you didn't have to change them just because you like your images systematized. That's why I was angry at you in the first place! You are the one who thinks that your images are perfect, and much better than mine.

Don't worry, I'm not interested in non-Japanese fakes.
I am not interested in non-Japanese fakes either, that's why I avoid playing them. I don't even think that they deserve to be here. But I think I must edit even the games I don't like.

I can't do anything with the fact that you do not want accept my arguments, and I believe this dispute is meaningless. In the end, I'll stand by my opinion.
You've read my mind. I could say the exact same thing about you.Last modified on 2013-07-02 at 10:14
#11 by binfujiwara
2013-07-02 at 10:12
< report >Don't you have anything to say? I'd really like to read your answer on my previous post.

Also, I'm not color blind, the army checked me and I've passed this and this test. I even have proofpics, if you want.
I think you should check yourself, though, if you can't tell blue from yellow.

I really don't want to fight with you. I'm very sorry if I ever offended you. Can you try to take this like an adult and accept that people can edit here even if they didn't play every single novel?Last modified on 2013-07-02 at 12:15
#12 by silence
2013-07-02 at 12:26
< report >If your eyesight is OK, then something is wrong with your brain. Or you're just a troll. A bold, green, stubborn troll. So let me ask. Your eye color is white? I guess so, because you think, that Medes' has amber eyes. But I have to disappoint you. Color of the eyes is defined by the color of the pupil. You once again showed all the depth of your stupidity. Did you say something in your last sentence? Something about adulthood? Look Who's Talking! If you don't want to piss me off, then stop sticking your nose in the things you know nothing about. This is the last warning. But If you wanna war, then prepare yourself.

I have nothing more to say.
#13 by yorhel
2013-07-02 at 12:44
< report >Holy flying fuck. Can't you guys even *try* to understand each others' views on this matter. It's like both of you are too busy with hating each other to read, and then burst into flames on the tinyest mistunderstanding.

Anyway, if we go by link and by the argument that the pupils count, then the correct color is "black". If we take the pupils thing less strictly, then the eye color is obviously yellow. If we instead look at link which silence posted in c3370.6, then the eye color really should be blue. But in that sense, the main image seems wrong, too.

Now please stop it with the insults towards each other and try get a damn overview of your arguments. If the image silence posted is correct, then I presume we can agree that blue is the correct color.

@bin: You, in particular, should cool down a bit. There was no need to assume color blindness, especially not if you've actually checked c3370.6.Last modified on 2013-07-02 at 12:46
#14 by binfujiwara
2013-07-02 at 12:46
< report >I don't hate silence, I just don't understand his logic. And I'm not trying to insult him. He's the one constantly insulting me! He called me color blind first.
And the pupil is not the way to define one's eye color. This way all of the humans would have BLACK eyes.
And that image.. WTF? His pupil is BLUE? Still, the rest of his eye is yellow.

And why are you ignoring t4260.10? It's completely sensible and not offensive.Last modified on 2013-07-02 at 12:55
#15 by silence
2013-07-02 at 13:38
< report >yorhel, both pictures are original. A blue-eyed is a sprite, and the black one is from CG or something like that (I don't really remember). Black eyes are too narrow, so I suspect that we just can't determine it's true color here. I used this pic instead of sprite because I found it more good-looking. I can replace it, if you think its worth. At worst, we can just delete that trait. I guess, nobody cares about a doll's eye color, which is a side character.

And the pupil is not the way to define one's eye color
Well, I was not accurate. Let this be the iris. It doesn't change anything.

And why are you ignoring t4260.10?
What exactly do you want me to say? That each of us will go their separate ways? Of course. But it's only as long as our paths will never cross.
#16 by binfujiwara
2013-07-02 at 14:19
< report >
Well, I was not accurate. Let this be the iris. It doesn't change anything.
The current picture was the reason for my mistake. It's quite misleading... Wait, didn't you write that one of the CG's show that his iris and pupil are black, but on the sprite they're blue?
So, are his eyes blue or black? Or yellow? Because if the center is black, it makes more sense that the center is the pupil, rather than an iris. Besides, a cat's eyes have huge irises and narrow pupils. According to that,

That each of us will go their separate ways? Of course. But it's only as long as our paths will never cross.
Not exactly. I'm not going to ignore all of the characters you had ever edited. Instead, I'll refrain from "desystematizing" these character's images, I mean, if you did systematize them already. Otherwise, I'd like to keep the right to modify the rest of the characters on this db.
In return, I'd very appreciate it if you'll do the same - refrain from editing the images I add to characters, unless they're not consistent/have bad quality.

EDIT:
The reason for this is that I want to do this because I'd like to prevent any similar conflicts that may occur. Example: you've crossed my path in Suika, changing the character images despite them being consistent and not much worse than yours.

In the rest of the conflicts that may occur between us I suggest that we don't offend each other just because "it's bin or silence editing that page! I hate him!". Or offend each other anywhere else, because it looks very ugly and childish. Instead, we should discuss the subject calmly either on our personal threads or in the edits section.

Also, I have an interesting idea for a solution for bin's -wrong- plot related trait edits. I'd like you to write the word "plot" in the Edit Summary box when you revert a wrong plot-related edit I make. When you do that, don't explain anything, I'll understand that I made a mistake, back off and won't be angry at you, obviously. (I mean, if I didn't finish the novel myself.) But I'd like you to be honest in these revisions, I mean don't use this key word just because you don't want me to edit a character.

LOL, my post is probably tl;dr. Sorry 'bout that.Last modified on 2013-07-02 at 14:36
#17 by silence
2013-07-02 at 15:32
< report >
So, are his eyes blue or black?
They are blue. You can see it from the sprite.

you've crossed my path in Suika, changing the character images despite them being consistent and not much worse than yours.
They weren't sprites, they were different-sized, and they were bad-scaled. Those 3 reasons are enough for me to edit any images. Note that with regard of the first two reasons, the rules are on my side.

In the rest of the conflicts that may occur between us I suggest that we don't offend each other just because "it's bin or silence editing that page! I hate him!"
I'm not going to edit a pictures just out of revenge. I still remain sane.

Instead, we should discuss the subject calmly either on our personal threads or in the edits section.
Have no objections. You had to do it from the begining.

I'd like you to write the word "plot" in the Edit Summary box when you revert a wrong plot-related edit I make
So be it.
#18 by binfujiwara
2013-07-02 at 16:43
< report >
They are blue.
If it was a real cat, I would have continued objecting. But because it's a plushie, it doesn't really matter since they technically have no eyes. Then it's a fantasy novel, so who knows? Or even, who cares?

You had to do it from the begining.
You too.

<all of the rest of your post>
That's good. I think that this conversation is over then.Last modified on 2013-07-02 at 16:45
#19 by immlff
2013-07-03 at 11:36
< report >@binfujiwara
About the way I add characters here.
I do work for quantity, but not because I'm lazy or something. I just think that this character database should be first of all *expanded*. So most of the chars I'm adding are not exactly what you can call "complete characters".
I want to address this particular point.
Silence is right, quality should take priority over quantity. Expanding the database is all nice and stuff, but it is better to have less characters added than have entries with incorrect information or unhidden spoilers.
Especially spoilers, you should be extremely cautious when adding some character traits or descriptions based on information from reviews or wikipedia. If you are not sure if it's a spoiler or not, then you would be better off not adding the trait/description at all. Also, do not use descriptions from wikipedia, they contain spoilers very frequently.

Edit: I've added this thread to u24819 board as well.Last modified on 2013-07-03 at 11:42
#20 by binfujiwara
2013-07-04 at 07:30
< report >I've addressed this issue already. If you have any objections about my edits, please write the word "plot" in your revision. Also, spoilers aren't lethal!

Besides, if my edits are so lousy in your opinion, why didn't you tell me about this before? I wouldn't be spending my time expanding the DB of a site that doesn't appreciate my work or doesn't want me here.Last modified on 2013-07-04 at 07:33
#21 by immlff
2013-07-04 at 15:09
< report >Aren't you mixing me up with Silence? I've addressed one particular issue, not the whole discussion here.

First. Spoilers *are* lethal. This is not open to argument. All spoilers should be properly hidden/marked. If you didn't know or understand this before, then reread what I've said about it in my previous post.

Second. I didn't say that you necessarily need to play the game to add its characters. Adding "incomplete" character entries is perfectly fine, as long as all added information is correct and all spoilers are hidden or avoided. You should just omit information you are not sure about instead of guessing.

As for that discussion about the cat's eye color, both of you went way overboard with it. It is not even nearly important enough to argue so much, that trait could be just ignored completely if it's so hard to determine it.Last modified on 2013-07-04 at 16:37
#22 by binfujiwara
2013-07-04 at 21:28
< report >@immlff
Ok, got it, mod-sama. I will look out for spoilers and avoid making assumptions on plot details from novels I didn't play.

Aren't you mixing me up with Silence?
I'm sorry. I just thought that not only silence wants me ouuta here. NVM.
#23 by immlff
2013-07-13 at 18:22
< report >@binfujiwara
This is offtopic, but I thought I could use this thread instead of creating a new one.
Don't add "Package Edition" to releases that originally didn't have it. See t2129 for more info on this.
#24 by binfujiwara
2013-07-13 at 18:51
< report >Ok, got it.

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