About VNDS releases

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#1 by anonymous
2013-11-10 at 17:30
< report >I just noticed that Fate/stay night had an Android release entered on VNDB. I checked it and found that it was a VNDS release.

I believe unofficial platform conversions should not be added as a release. It's my first time finding a VNDS release, and I'm not sure if there's been any discussion already. Sorry if there's another thread, I couldn't find one.

First, there are very, very many NScripter and Kirikiri games that run fine on dedicated applications on Android and iOS(and they're not emulators either as far as I know) - what do you do with them if VNDS is added?

They are much better in reproducing the original content too: though I only have knowledge of and no experience using the aforementioned Kirikiri compatibility app(it's in its early stages so I don't expect much), NScripter games work (nearly) perfectly as if playing them on a PC on a certain app.

Second, the quality of the conversion is not reflected in the release itself, and it could be hard to judge whether it could be added as (qualified as) a release -- does an unofficially distributed Powerpoint with all of the text and pictures count as a release? How is VNDS any better?

Another issue I could think of: Shouldn't it be added as a DS release too? etc.

At the very least, I think a guideline should be released for these if they were to be allowed.Last modified on 2013-11-10 at 17:45
#2 by warfoki
2013-11-10 at 18:08
< report >We have unofficial ports and illegal releases in the database.

r18439 is a fan-made PC-port of an arcade version, for one.
Or there's v10127 which was a late April's Fool joke from a hentai scanlator group, made out of a CG set, random sexy flash games and random music, ranging from Rammstein to JRPG OSTs.
And I've seen a fanmade gameboy version of some old VN somewhere, but can't remember the name right now.

The problem here, as far I understand, is that this isn't an Android release. But that could be solved by modifying the platform to "Other" and adding a note.Last modified on 2013-11-10 at 18:11
#3 by gerardlonewolf
2013-11-10 at 18:19
< report >
The problem here, as far I understand, is that this isn't an Android release.

It isn't? (Legit question, because I'm honestly not sure) linkLast modified on 2013-11-10 at 18:20
#4 by surferdude
2013-11-10 at 18:19
< report >^
^ r27509 ?Last modified on 2013-11-10 at 18:19
#5 by warfoki
2013-11-10 at 18:24
< report >@Gerard: No idea. I don't have and haven't ever had a smart-phone, so I know shit about iPhones or the Android OS. I have an old-school Nokia.

@Surferdude: Yup, that's the one, thanks.Last modified on 2013-11-10 at 18:28
#6 by merup
2013-11-10 at 18:37
< report >no, it's not an android release it's "a (complicated and buggy) way to make one for your phone" but not a finished product that one could just launch and read.Last modified on 2013-11-10 at 18:38
#7 by gerardlonewolf
2013-11-10 at 19:01
< report >
I don't have and haven't ever had a smart-phone, so I know shit about iPhones or the Android OS. I have an old-school Nokia.

I don't have a smart-phone either so I can't check it out too.
#8 by fireman123
2013-11-10 at 19:24
< report >How so people not have a smartphone at this age?
I love my iPhone
#9 by warfoki
2013-11-10 at 19:31
< report >Lack of money on my end. I could make good use of it, but, well... I'm sitting on an office chair which has a broken wheel and I kind of glued together the rest of it, so I can postpone buying a new one. I have 6-7 years old laptop, with dead batteries (it can run for 3-4 minutes without being plugged in at most) and a screen that regularly goes haywire (the display vibrates and the image just falls apart) , so I have to smack the back of it once in a while to get it work. And my computer is so old, that I have DDR1 type memory and a floppy drive in it. So buying a smart phone is not of top priority to say the least.Last modified on 2013-11-10 at 20:00
#10 by fireman123
2013-11-10 at 19:46
< report >Uh.... How does it even run visual novels?
#11 by warfoki
2013-11-10 at 20:05
< report >Heh, running VNs doesn't really require a power-house of a PC. The most recent AAA titles and some of those HD remakes are lagging a bit, but in general playing a VN isn't any harder on one's machine than say, listening to music or watching a movie. That's one of the reasons why I sticked with them: I was always a gamer guy, but I can't play any games (sans low budget indie ones) coming out after 2005 (I can kinda-sorta run TES 4: Oblivion, as long as I keep the graphical quality on minimum). However, I have no problem playing the recent stuff when it comes to VNs.Last modified on 2013-11-10 at 20:07
#12 by fireman123
2013-11-10 at 20:13
< report >I have a laptop from this year and it can barley run vns due to a 1.33ghz processor :3
#13 by warfoki
2013-11-10 at 20:23
< report >That shouldn't be the case. Although I guess it depends on your OS as well, if you have a Win7 hogging the resources of your system, it can happen I suppose. I have XP, so no problems with that.
#14 by fireman123
2013-11-10 at 20:37
< report >Well it's not like it can't play it it just has a tough time and especially if shit is moving it lags every time you continue, I needed the absolute cheapest laptop they had ATM and that was it, big mistake, lol.
I only use my main pc for gaming, much better
#15 by anonymous
2013-11-11 at 02:21
< report >@warfoki: I see your point and the need for these additions. I still think there are too many unofficial releases that could be added..

To explain how these run on a smartphone,

Processing power is not much of a problem, it's only pictures and text and playing music.

I'm pretty sure VNDS is an individual engine designed for DS use. There are programs to convert some VN scripts into its programming language or whatever. The Android NScripter engine I was talking about is actually a port from the original PC engine: you can just put compatible games(the folder itself) into your smartphone and it will just run from it.

This means a TON of games such as Higurashi and Umineko can run on Android just by copy and paste.
The only modifications one might have to make is to repack CG files and such if the original files were compressed in sizes too large for the phone to process.

There also are ports of other games into NScripter so that people could play them on their phone - even Grisaia has one. Kanon has one. G-senjou has one. This is massive.Last modified on 2013-11-11 at 08:13
#16 by yorhel
2013-11-11 at 07:41
< report >I'm leaning towards excluding VNDS releases from the database.

We already disallow marking a game as working for a certain platform if it is through emulation. From accela's description VNDS doesn't sound all that different from emulation, except there is a (mostly automated) extraction and reformatting stage involved. It doesn't sound too useful to keep track of all the games for which this is known to work, IMO.
#17 by anonymous
2013-11-11 at 08:59
< report >I agree with yorhel that it should be the treated the same as emulation. This and emulation share the point that they could be helpful to people who are finding VNs to read on a certain platform.

However as in the example warfoki mentioned exclusion might have a negative impact on games on obscure platforms. It could be argued that only people who were interested in it would search for it in the first place(I don't know if this argument is for or against exclusion anymore...) but it doesn't matter anyway.

The difference between VNDS conversion and emulation is that the former is not available for a large portion of the VNs on a single platform, unlike say PSP emulation for Windows which is pretty much complete.

I think VNDB admins should decide on how detailed of a database VNDB is going to be: it already allows any(am I correct?) unofficial translation patch release to be entered. Allowing VNDS releases, allowing notes that say "this breaks on this certain emulator" and allowing arcade to PC port releases might seem to be different but also could be seen as not that different. This is caused by, to rephrase the former statement, the difference in value people put in these information.

Personally I'd want every single one of them to be listed on a dedicated section or something. I'd also like scenario writers and artists included in the database too. This is why I'm not suggesting to make a poll or something. Unofficial releases along with detailed character tags are the things that set apart VNDB from erogamescape as a database; admins can decide if they want VNDB to be a huge monster site, or a site with different functions from another, or if they want to make a poll about it. Am I making too big of a deal out of this? Just my two cents.

edit: sorry for the walls of text.
also disregard the last paragraph I think I messed it up too much with lack of knowledge.Last modified on 2013-11-11 at 14:47
#18 by warfoki
2013-11-11 at 09:15
< report >@Accela: We don't have admins, we have exactly one: Yorhel. And about scenario writers and artists, you can give t4578 a bump, if you have anything specific in mind.
Oh, and don't worry about the walls of text.Last modified on 2013-11-11 at 13:13
#19 by merup
2013-11-11 at 12:14
< report >IMO VNDB should only list real_products/original_releases (unless it's a complete and self-contained port that you plug in and read). To me listing VNDS is something like labeling Microsoft Visual Studio as "audio player for windows" with a note "well, it's not actually player, but there's one for Linux and with visual studio you might make it work!". Of course this is an exaggeration, but I couldn't come up with something better ^^
I mean come on. There's also WINE and some tools to make some particular VNs work with it if it doesn't works out of the box. But no one adds it as a release (at least I haven't seen)Last modified on 2013-11-11 at 12:23
#20 by anonymous
2013-11-11 at 12:49
< report >@warfoki I just assumed there was a good amount of discussion about it already and there was a good reason why writers and such didn't have a spot here, hence the semi-sarcasm thing(my fault, sorry). Thanks for the link and info.
edit:seems like it was the totally opposite.. haha..Last modified on 2013-11-11 at 12:58
#21 by takata
2013-11-11 at 13:40
< report >I'm leaning towards treating this as an emulation, although it -is- a bit different.

It looks like to get a VN to run on VNDS Interpreter, you effectively have to "port" it first. While there are programs to do this automatically, each program is unique to a VN. ie You need one program to port Fate Stay Night, and a different program to port Kira Kira.

Is writing the porting program considered "porting" the game?

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