Staff & Seiyuu Database Testing

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#51 by maverynthia
2014-12-30 at 16:17
< report >I see a composer there, but what about a spot for vocals (as in a singer for maybe the OP or ED songs as some VNs have those)

Also "Vocals" is confusing if it means Voice Actors... when I think vocals I think music .-. Unless it is music.
#52 by wakaranai
2014-12-30 at 17:56
< report >^ it is music. voice actors should be added under the "cast" tab.
#53 by weilai
2014-12-30 at 21:33
< report >when that get add to site?
#54 by wakaranai
2014-12-31 at 02:44
< report >^ sometime in 2015.

well, here's my thoughts on the issues arisen.

1. kanji spelling.

having japanese alias without romanized variant goes against site policy stated in d5. if romanization turns out to be the same, so be it, but then one should use kanji/hiragana when adding cast in order to distinguish between aliases that are spelled the same in latin. in my opinion, it's too cumbersome and i prefer convenience over the accuracy here. anyway, it's more of administrative issue. btw, someone should write a proper d16 with whatever rules we'd end up with.

a side note regarding original names spelling. having original names in database is supposed to help out in searches, but forcing space between the first and last names effectively kills that purpose (where this policy even came from?). suppose you have kanjis representing a person name that you obtained on some japanese site like link . obviously it wouldn't have a space in it. now, if you try to search it here, database search would fail even if the person in question present in it, it's just turns out that space inbetween kanjis hinders name matching. that's a critical issue actually, as name lookups are used in staff edit form. so i'm against this questionable policy in the first place and as long as it stays i don't really care how original names are spelled as they serve more decorative than practical purpose that way.

2. usability issue.

turns out that 'Cast' tab could be missed and seiyuus are added under the 'Staff' tab. guidelines under the staff edit tab should have a directions that point out who should be added where.

3. move staff credits editing into staff revision instead of VN one.

i personally like the idea, but at this point it would require rewriting half the code. unlikely to happen.

4. notifications.

i don't use that feature myself so didn't bother to program it. it could be added sometimes later. probably. it involves modification of database triggers and i'm not that familiar with them so i'd rather leave that to yorhel.

5. links.

suggested so far: anidb, official website. i'd suggest vgmdb link instead of official site. really, how many of those involved in eroge production have a personal site? moreover, in english?

6. duplicate entries (link).

that's a mysterious bug that shows up under uncertain conditions that i can't figure out yet. worst of all, i'm unable to reproduce it locally, so my debugging capabilities are limited here.
#55 by rusanon
2014-12-31 at 02:54
< report >
really, how many of those involved in eroge production have a personal site?
If twitter is included, almost everyone.
#56 by wakaranai
2014-12-31 at 03:02
< report >it's a social media, not an official website. that would be a third propsal (fourth, with vgmdb).
#57 by anonymous
2015-01-01 at 04:56
< report >Despite being social media, it is heavily used by many scenario writers, composers, VAs and so on. And sometimes the best way to get information about them or what they're currently working on is through their tweets. Of course a blog or an official website should be priorized, but I think it'd be ideal to consider twitter.Last modified on 2015-01-01 at 05:03
#58 by yorhel
2015-01-02 at 09:36
< report >
move staff credits editing into staff revision instead of VN one.
I (weakly) prefer them to be linked to VN revisions. I'm expecting people to know more about who is involved in a particular VN than people to know about all VNs a particular person has been involved with. The only exception to this are famous people with a large fanbase. In any case, it's still possible to add a "include revisions of VN-related edits" options in the edit history of staff entries, similar to the functionality we already have for VN releases. I'm not sure this is worth the effort though.

I'll do that.

duplicate entries (link)
I'll look into that in a bit.

I'm in favour of adding links to an official homepage and twitter, at least. Other sites, not sure how common or useful those are.

different spelling of same name
Agreed with wakaranai. It would be acceptable to add different spellings as different aliasses (with same romaji) if the person actually used those different spellings.

space in original name
Hmmm. I'm usually in favour of the space, but wakaranai makes a strong point about searching. It would be nice if the search function could ignore the spaces, but that might be too expensive.

I didn't see much complaints about the list of roles so far, so I'm assuming the current offering is alright. We just need to document their meanings properly to avoid confusion.

For roles, producer seems fairly common, so it may be worth adding at some point.
Naive question: What does a "producer" do? (And this terminology is confusing as we already use "producers" to indicate the developing company and publishers)Last modified on 2015-01-02 at 10:04
#59 by wakaranai
2015-01-02 at 09:57
< report >hm, something's broken. i'm looking into it.
#60 by yorhel
2015-01-02 at 10:04
< report >No, I was screwing around trying to fix the duplication problem.
Fixed now.

EDIT: Fixed the duplication problem too.

EDIT#2: Two more (minor) fixes: link and linkLast modified on 2015-01-02 at 10:38
#61 by wakaranai
2015-01-02 at 10:51
< report >^ numbers should be normalized in js code, too link

other javascript serialization functions already have it, just missed this one.
#62 by wakaranai
2015-01-02 at 11:45
< report >
I'm usually in favour of the space
how about this:

add another column to staff_alias table, 'raw_name', and whenever name/alias is added/edited into database, 'raw_name' is filled with a copy of 'original' with spaces removed. if 'original' is empty or doesn't contain spaces then raw_name would be NULL. thus it could be used in searches in addition to 'original' column. this field would be used in name lookups only and wouldn't be visible anywhere.
#63 by yorhel
2015-01-02 at 12:46
< report >
add another column
Yeah, thats roughly how VN search currently works. But adding another column is certainly not cheap. :-(
Let's just stick with the no-space guideline.
#64 by myopius
2015-01-02 at 18:13
< report >
Naive question: What does a "producer" do? (And this terminology is confusing as we already use "producers" to indicate the developing company and publishers)
The definition of producer probably differs a bit between studios, but it could be thought of as an overseer/quality checker who's perhaps more concerned that the title doesn't bomb, whereas director more personally supervises the production. More info

Oh, and I somehow forgot producer already refers to something on VNDB. Not sure I've ever seen a different word used to refer to the position.

Speaking of confusing terminology, the exact differences between original concept AKA 原案, project planning AKA 企画, original work AKA 原作, and planner AKA プランナー (I think planner = same as either 企画 or 原案?) have never been clear to me (looking at the credits of Shikura Chiyomaru from 5pb, for example).Last modified on 2015-01-02 at 18:14
#65 by dk382
2015-01-02 at 21:06
< report >In western game development, a producer is basically a middle manager of sorts. Producers assign people to teams, deal with the scheduling, work as in-betweens for the different teams, manage the money, etc. They have no real creative input. In Japanese game development I think it's much the same, producers deal with the people side of things while directors deal with the creative side of things (they direct the team members producers assign to them). In small teams which, most eroge is developed with, roles often overlap and people take multiple jobs, so it can get pretty messy and there may not always be a distinction.

This can get pretty confusing because Japanese and western game development uses different role names for many things. There are no "directors" in western game development, for example. In western development, a "project planner" would basically just be a type of producer.
#66 by rusanon
2015-01-03 at 07:14
< report >Speaking of roles, why "script writer"? Its very confusing as "script" is actual program, with command codes and such. Japanese call "scenario writing" as writing text, while "scripting" is turning said text into program and its done by programmer, not writer.
#67 by mashibana
2015-01-03 at 09:14
< report >'Script' is just a synonymous of 'screenplay', so it's ok. link
#68 by wakaranai
2015-01-03 at 09:27
< report >
"script" is actual program
you're overestimating number of people that aware of this meaning of the word 'script'. also, link
#69 by silence
2015-01-03 at 11:43
< report >Could you make some kind of warning, when someone trying to add staff with already existed name or alias? It should show the links to all profiles with the same name for user to check it. If a user will understand he make a duplicate, then he should stop. If he still thinking it's a different person, then he might click some button like "proceed anyway" to finish.

Also, how about a "song name" fields (JP + Romaji) for Vocals, with possibility to specify the type of song (OP/ED/InsertSong, etc)?
#70 by rusanon
2015-01-03 at 13:02
< report >@67 @68
I know "script writer" is technically correct too, but problem is that as I said above, Japanese staff credits use term "script" for entirely different role (programming).
#71 by silence
2015-01-03 at 13:11
< report >Scenario writer, maybe?
#72 by mashibana
2015-01-03 at 15:06
< report >
Also, how about a "song name" fields (JP + Romaji) for Vocals, with possibility to specify the type of song (OP/ED/InsertSong, etc)?
You could add that on the 'note' field. linkLast modified on 2015-01-03 at 15:10
#73 by silence
2015-01-03 at 15:44
< report >^Sometimes it's too much typing. And there is no regularity. Only chaos and shit.
#74 by wakaranai
2015-01-03 at 16:04
< report >then don't be an ass and don't shit too much.
#75 by silence
2015-01-03 at 16:31
< report >^Then, at least, write in the guide, how not be an ass and not to shit. Some "aggressive" recommendations for shitty people won't hurt =)