VNDB 2.24: Staffing The Database

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#351 by Yorhel
2022-06-04 at 14:03
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will the staff be duplicable unlike the current scheme?
Yup, the same staff can be listed with the same role in different editions, but still only once within a single edition.

if we will allow dupes, then I'm guessing that we don't need to re-add the staff from the original ed if they have the same role as the original.
Probably not, but I haven't really thought this through.

will you add more staff role category?
Yes, a few. I was thinking of going with the roles in #336.

there are VN translations which are done by the original developer themselves. so in this case, should we create a new subsection for the translation staff or just jam them in along with the original language staff?
I'd say that each translation should be an edition on its own.
#352 by myou
2022-06-05 at 03:00
< report >@t6138.349/yorhel My personal opinion is that for the case of remakes, option #1 in t6138.327 (just adding localization staff) could be better than option #2 ("editions") which you just presented an example of. Because I think the split between the original YU-NO's credits and the remake's credits doesn't feel "clean" in that example.

It seems that part of the motivation to split staff into editions was to make it easier to see staff grouped together by localization, particularly if there are multiple same-language localizations. It was assumed that this change could be extended to also affect other types of "release-based staff" like remake staff. However, it's possible that the current staff overview (not split by editions, but reliant on notes like "2017 remake") already presents the staff differences clearly enough.

It's not hard to assume that remakes are very similar to the original releases (or they would have their own VN entry, at least). So currently, I would still view the staff section as a whole, and if I wanted to use compare editions, I would skim for any credit notes that say "2017 remake" or "Original version only" and then factor that into my considerations, like, "Oh, so that one artist I like only did the art in the original version" or "Oh, so the remake has a new OP". The current staff section is sufficient for that, at least.

As a disclaimer, I haven't thought about this subject (splitting staff credits into release-related sections) much. It's very possible I'm overlooking something. And what I've said only applies to remake-related staff sections, not localization-related staff sections; I didn't see any issue with the latter.

Yes, a few. I was thinking of going with the roles in #336.
My personal belief is that it'd be counterproductive to display "graphics" credits in a location other than where they currently should be: under Staff/miscellaneous (I'm actually not sure why they are under Artist in yorhel's example). It's a largely uncreative credit. The creative role of background artists is also only truly appreciated in a minority of VNs, similar to scripters. Like coloring, their style and quality is largely associated with brands rather than individuals.

Leaving aside the 2 obvious localization roles which are what they are, the other proposed major role additions don't look problematic, aside from all the edits that will need to be make to implement them. Maybe somewhat arbitrary (that is, kumiko1 did not feel the need to explain in detail why they were picked) but fine. I stand by what I came up with in t6138.315 (at the end of the post after "With that said,") as a more comprehensive credit overhaul that also addresses a lot of existing awkwardness. As I also mentioned earlier, another option would be to not make any changes--besides those related to localization credits, which have a clear demand--if the current staff credits are not particularly problematic.Last modified on 2022-06-05 at 05:43
#353 by Ezezin
2022-06-05 at 04:36
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Ezezin did not feel the need to explain in detail why they were picked
You mean what I said in #337? Translator, Editor and QA are the most prominent roles added in the release notes. Currently, it's not possible to search for those roles and new staff are not added if they made a translation or localization or have a description and links to said translator social media and/or website. Translations groups appears and disappears all the time, but there are some cases where a translator works with other groups or starts their own project.
If you are talking about #311, that was just me giving some ideas if more staff roles were being added; of course I was not asking to have all of those roles, that would be silly on my part.

As I also mentioned earlier, another option would be to not make any changes--besides those related to localization credits
This is, more or less, the reason of what I said in #337. If we try to decide on what to add and what not, we would not go anywhere; that's why I suggested to start with Translator, Editor and QA first while making a proposal for translations that could also work with different versions too (remakes, remaster, console editions, etc.).
If, somehow, we can't make the different official versions work with the current proposal (I really doubt this will be the case unless a nasty bug appears) or every user thinks that all official staff should be kept in a single section, we can always keep the separation as something exclusive to translations/localizations until it's fixed. It shouldn't be a big problem, just a tweak of the guidelines or a reminder in the edit form.

Speaking of guidelines, to answer #350 I'm taking notes of everything that was said thus far. I will post a first draft when Yorhel presents the finished example, but so far it's mostly in line to what Yorhel said in #351.Last modified on 2022-06-05 at 07:31
#354 by myou
2022-06-05 at 05:42
< report >@#353/Ezezin: Whoops, sorry! I somehow thought you were the name of the person who posted t6138.336, but it was kumiko1. Editing my post now.
#355 by caffeinecrisis
2022-06-06 at 08:02
< report >#349: This looks great Yorhel! I actually like it better than what I drafted.

I've been thinking a bit on how to handle the notes so that they work on mobile... might slap something together this week for fun.
#356 by Yorhel
2022-06-26 at 09:49
< report >Rather than making screencaps of the work in progress, I've decided to revive the old sandbox instance at beta.vndb.org. It's running with the WIP staff editions code so you can play around with it live.
(I haven't added any localization staff to the test database yet, but feel free to change that, the VN edit form is functional)

I've added just the three localization-related staff roles for now.

Things that need work:
- Editions aren't yet displayed on staff pages.
- There's no preferences for which staff sections to show by default, I plan to handle that similarly to the existing releases display preferences. (Or should I reuse the release preferences? hmm)
#357 by bassttark
2022-06-26 at 13:45
< report >Have you considered having the staff in another tab, just like tags and characters? With this format it will use a significant chunk of the main tab, and frankly I am usually not interested in reading the full credits of a vn.
#358 by Yorhel
2022-06-26 at 13:47
< report >Like with the releases section, there'll be an option to collapse all staff sections by default. So it will still use a bit of space, but not that much.
#359 by kumiko1
2022-06-28 at 05:38
< report >Not sure how we're supposed to try editing the test database when we can't log in, but at least the staff view on link looks pretty good.
I wonder if it would be better to have the collapse options based on language like releases rather than edition, so people who don't care about localisation staff can hide them easier rather than having to click for each release? Although maybe that's just a problem for the example page with lots of EN TLs which probably isn't true for most VNs.
#360 by NaioHoras
2022-06-28 at 06:44
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Not sure how we're supposed to try editing the test database when we can't log in
have you ever tried clicking "More Info" and opening the forbidden page where Yorhel shares his user's email and password? link
#361 by kumiko1
2022-06-28 at 10:13
< report >Alright I missed that, well the edit window looks perfect, no complaints from me.
Just need to push it to the main branch so people can start adding staff.

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