Chatlog with Concerning Things About Frontwing

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#1 by jazz957
2015-08-01 at 18:36
So yeah, anyone see this yet?

I totally wouldn't blame SP if they decided to never work with Front Wing again.
#2 by pendelhaven
2015-08-01 at 18:52
<herkz> yeah they got like half of that as pure profit
<herkz> by doing nothing
<herkz> except uploading some files for us
<Moogy> and they had a hard time even doing that
<herkz> it's easy to forget apparently

well that's a laugh.
#3 by harag
2015-08-01 at 18:54
wow... Sounds awful...

If I understood correctly more than half the price of Chiruchiru is just profit for Frontwing right?
That would actually explain quite a lot of things. That game is ridiculously expensive.
I'm not a fan of Sekai but I wonder how they could do things normally.
#4 by arilando
2015-08-01 at 22:55
"pure profit". Yes, it's a for profit company, that's kinda what they do.
#5 by kiru
2015-08-01 at 23:26
I wonder what's more expensive. Translating a VN, or producing a VN including voice-acting, music, art and the story?
I'd say the original creators getting at least half of the profit shouldn't be weird. Especially seeing how the English localization is really just the text-translation and then of course handling of publishing.
But of course that's profit. You have to cover the costs for localizing and publishing. (though it's not THAT bad for VNs as long as no English voice acting is provided) So ideally your contracts cover that in some way.


Well, that's not really the issue of that text-log though. No idea how much truth there is in that, but it sounds like both parties are pretty unhappy and that's never good.
In theory I'm not against companies actually caring about HOW something is localized. (I'd wish for everyone to do so when NISA localizes jrpgs, as an example.) And most of the time it's better to leave the localizing to the ones who actually know about it. But I really can't judge this, and also shouldn't.

From the textlog you can only see that the localization party is angry and call stuff "unreasonable", but if it's really unreasonable we don't know. It could be completely legitimate complaints. More work is never fun. Getting criticized for you work neither. And that Japanese companies sometimes take ages for some "minor" task is sadly just the way they roll. I've read many complaints about this for so many devs.. it just happens. Oftentimes because of dead-lines for their local market being more important. Still annoying for their localization partners..
#6 by dk382
2015-08-01 at 23:45
Koestl made a response to the pastebin on reddit: link

Basically things aren't quite as bad as the chatlog makes it seem.Last modified on 2015-08-01 at 23:48
#7 by jazz957
2015-08-02 at 03:09
I was the one that made that thread. :P
#8 by merup
2015-08-02 at 03:21
Good_Haro> the worst we've had to deal with lately is logos getting rejected :\
...
<herkz> they basically want things to not be translated
Sounds right. Why the fuck you want to touch logos.
#9 by sanahtlig
2015-08-02 at 21:23
I think Frontwing, like most Japanese eroge companies, is inexperienced in dealing with the English market. They're flailing around blindly due to the language and cultural barriers, and because they have limited attention to invest. They don't appear to fully trust Sekai Project to serve their interests. And perhaps they shouldn't--would you place complete faith in a startup that's been around for 1-2 years and has released hardly any professional-level titles?

It sucks for the people having to deal with this, but all they can do is try to explain to Frontwing and hope they listen. Ranting in English isn't really going to help matters. If these people have complaints, they should complain to Frontwing directly and try to get the issues addressed.
link

Also:
> Frontwing complaining that a translation of a translation isn't faithful to the original
...lol.Last modified on 2015-08-02 at 21:48
#10 by warfoki
2015-08-02 at 21:40
It's herkz and Moogy for fuck's sake. Of course they'd complain. I haven't seen those two being satisfied with anything ever. I'm not saying that they can't raise legit issues, of course they can. But knowing their track record, they're probably overreacting big time. So things being not as bad as you'd think based on that log is not surprising the least.

That being said, I don't blame this on Moogy or herkz entirely: this was supposed to be an off-the-cuffs chat. The biggest asshat here is the idiot who published it. Pointless drama like this is not helping anyone. At worst it can result in more tension between Frontwing and SP. And that's not good for anyone.
#11 by sanahtlig
2015-08-02 at 21:47
I don't really think the people in this conversation did anything wrong. They were talking amongst themselves in their hideout, and someone decided to broadcast it. And now apparently someone on /jp/ decided to e-mail the conversation to Frontwing.

There's people on the Internet who like to stir up trouble. No surprises there.
#12 by jazz957
2015-08-02 at 21:48
Actually it was originally from the Tlwiki IRC channel which is publicly visible, so it wasn't private to begin with. And the person I got the link from found it on /jp/.Last modified on 2015-08-02 at 21:48
#13 by sanahtlig
2015-08-02 at 21:51
Posting this on Reddit wasn't very classy. If Frontwing lashes out at Sekai Project and does something stupid like translate their own games, you'll be one of the parties responsible.Last modified on 2015-08-02 at 21:52
#14 by jazz957
2015-08-02 at 21:53
I was sharing something that had already been made publicly available. People may blame me but I will just deflect it back at them and refuse to shoulder it, since I don't give a shit if people blame me for something I had no part in. Sorry but I refuse to be considered a responsible party.

It was already posted to 4chan before I shared it on reddit. And the conversation took place on Tlwiki's IRC channel which is not a private channel, but a public one that anyone can join.Last modified on 2015-08-02 at 21:56
#15 by verdun
2015-08-02 at 22:06
You spread something inflammatory and say you're completely innocent?

Sure you're not wholly responsible, in a small sort of way you kind of are.

And your "pass the buck" attitude is kind of rude.

"Bro, don't get mad at me. I don't make the gossip, I just spread it."Last modified on 2015-08-02 at 22:08
#16 by jazz957
2015-08-02 at 22:09
No I won't at all admit responsibility. No I was not all rude, I have absolutely no obligation to shoulder any blame. The only ones who should are those who participated in the conversation, therefore, no, I have no involvement. I merely shared something that was already made publicly available.
#17 by chuee
2015-08-02 at 22:57
"If Frontwing lashes out at Sekai Project and does something stupid like translate their own games, you'll be one of the parties responsible."

They're already acting like they want to anyways.
#18 by rusanon
2015-08-03 at 04:07
If Frontwing lashes out at Sekai Project and does something stupid like translate their own games
Then Sekai Project will pay for own mistakes. There's a reason why every sane company has NDA clauses in their contracts and why every piece of information going public should be approved by marketing/PR.
I doubt they ever going to learn to keep their mouths shut if they don't lose some contracts because of it, and in long term it would only benefit SP.
#19 by pendelhaven
2015-08-03 at 04:57
@18: It's not like it's too late to fix what's broken. Both for FW and SP.

I think people are just overacting, like always. At this point its still safe to assume that whoever asks to fail will be those who'll fail.

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