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#26 by hankou
2015-08-08 at 10:50
EGS scores are worthless. The Japanese using this site are mainly moetards, so it's only natural that crappy moege are on top of the list.

That does beg the question of what exactly is the most viable target audience for Eroge company in the West... They aren't planning to be culture heros afterall. I suppose opinionated Eroge vets are more likely to purchase the games rather than pirate, but they are also fewer and more likely to take their customership directly to Japanese retailers.
#27 by sanahtlig
2015-08-08 at 21:54
A perceived "moe bias" in user ratings can be controlled for simply by comparing games of like genres against each other. Far more insidious is the selection bias that occurs on VNDB for Japanese-only titles: people end up only playing and rating titles that they like best. As a result, titles like Raidy 3 end up with vastly inflated scores that drop as soon as the game is released in English, making comparisons between ratings of titles--even within the same series--invalid. That's very difficult to control for, especially given the variability in Japanese comprehension among the VNDB voter base.Last modified on 2015-08-08 at 21:56
#28 by dk382
2015-08-09 at 04:27
After suffering so much disappointment from SakuSaku, I can only imagine that the 4chan cliche is true and a large percentage of vndb users do actually vote based on nothing more than the quality of the CG gallery.Last modified on 2015-08-09 at 04:28
#29 by bunny1ov3r
2015-08-09 at 06:08
All scores in any database are for reference only. Don't make the common mistake of equating database score with quality...
#30 by babymetal
2015-08-09 at 12:28
Read SubaHibi, guys. It's cool.
#31 by trinity
2015-08-09 at 13:38
I agree completely with #27, ratings for hyped games and games that were translated into English are incredibly inflated because people end up rating only a very narrow range of titles. Also I feel like people either rate something a 9/10 or a 2/3, it's like there's no middle ground in a lot of cases.
#32 by sanahtlig
2015-08-10 at 02:18
After suffering so much disappointment from SakuSaku, I can only imagine that the 4chan cliche is true and a large percentage of vndb users do actually vote based on nothing more than the quality of the CG gallery.
It's worth pointing out that the EGS score for that game is 71, which is about the same as Shuffle (though Shuffle got about 10x the number of votes, indicating greater popularity).

I compiled the VNDB scores for Koi ga Saku Koro Sakura Doki before and after release of the English partial patch on 12/22/2014.

VNDB vote average (before patch release only): 8.25
VNDB vote average (after patch release only): 7.4

A VNDB rating drop of 1-2 points is not at all uncommon when a game gets a full release in English, especially for games with niche appeal.Last modified on 2015-08-10 at 02:33
#33 by dk382
2015-08-10 at 03:56
The trend used to be that VNDB scores rose after an english patch. At least, that's what everyone seemed to think. It may support the theory that many voters of Japanese games vote based on CG galleries, because in years past, translators preferred games that focused on story over art (with a couple exceptions).

Also, just another random observation, the difference between games rated 8.25 and 7.4 is kind of massive. Like, on my personal scale that would be a good 3-4 point difference. 8.25 games tend to be kind of great, while 7.4 games tend to be meh. 7.0 games tend to be bad. Heh, VNDB really does have a super compressed scale rivalling that of IGN's.Last modified on 2015-08-10 at 04:01
#34 by sanahtlig
2015-08-10 at 05:00
For me, one point is an entire tier of games. Here's an example using gameplay eroge, my focus.

10: Basically the best game I've ever played. (Ikusa Megami Zero)
9: Best-in-class (Sengoku Rance, Eushully's best titles)
8: A superior game of its type. Surpasses expectations. (Eushully's better titles, Seinarukana)
7: Worth playing, but not exceptional (most of the games I play)
6: Flawed in some significant way that makes it less enjoyable. There's likely many other games of this type that are better (most of Debonosu's titles)
5: Badly flawed or lacking critical elements I expect (the Raidy series)
4-: This game is trash with little to no redeeming value no matter what your interests may be. (Pretty Soldier Wars)

The trend used to be that VNDB scores rose after an english patch. At least, that's what everyone seemed to think. It may support the theory that many voters of Japanese games vote based on CG galleries, because in years past, translators preferred games that focused on story over art (with a couple exceptions).
Are you sure you're talking about VNDB vote average and not Bayesian rating, which is explicitly influenced by the number of votes?Last modified on 2015-08-10 at 05:31
#35 by sanahtlig
2015-08-10 at 09:50
I rewrote the LewdGamer article, which I felt wasn't written properly.

ChuableSoft reaches out to English VN fans
#36 by veronin
2015-08-10 at 10:50
the drop in ratings can simply be explained by the fact that translations are inferior products and most people here vote based on the inferior version
#37 by sanahtlig
2015-08-10 at 11:01
The inferior literary work that is Raidy 3 in English? Come on. Nukige are especially vulnerable to this effect, so that can't be the full explanation.Last modified on 2015-08-10 at 11:04
#38 by tyr
2015-08-10 at 11:59
The reason games like Raidy get low votes in English is that EOPs read every English translation because they don't have a choice.
Raidy 3 is a bad games, yes, but it's deliberately bad. It's a sequel to the first two games which are PC98 games. Ero crawler on the PC98 were pretty bad compared to non-ero dungeon crawler, but nonetheless they had charm and people liked them despite their clumsy gameplay for whatever reason (I like them too and I don't know why lol).
Raidy 3 tries to imitate this long forgotten feeling and people knowing Japanese buy Raidy 3 because they know they get a crappy little old school dungeon crawler and that's exactly what they want.
When Jast released Raidy 3 in English, EOPs played it because they had nothing else to play at the moment, not because they actually like the type of game it is. And then they realize that it's bad (which it is, but deliberately) and vote it low although they weren't the target audience to begin with. They blame Raidy 3 for being exactly the game Raidy games always were.
Usually one would say "don't play it if you don't like it" but sadly that's not the case in the English vn scene.

Btw: sanahtlig, your voting range seems to be a little off. Something you would vote a 7, I would vote a 5, because .. you know .. mediocrity is usually at the middle point. Why don't you use the whole range of numbers?
#39 by sanahtlig
2015-08-10 at 12:28
Raidy 3 tries to imitate this long forgotten feeling and people knowing Japanese buy Raidy 3 because they know they get a crappy little old school dungeon crawler and that's exactly what they want.
Raidy 3 has hardly any votes on EGS. They appear to have simply dismissed the game. Although, better games like Debonosu's are getting the same treatment, so perhaps that shouldn't be over-interpreted.

In general, I don't play "mediocre" games. If I expected a game to be mediocre, I wouldn't be playing it in the first place. Naturally my scores will skew to the higher side because given the choice, I'll select better titles over worse ones.Last modified on 2015-08-10 at 12:29
#40 by space-ranger
2015-08-10 at 13:48
Raidy 3 is a bad games, yes, but it's deliberately bad. It's a sequel to the first two games which are PC98 games.
Bad depends on what the player wants. If the player played the first two and wants a sequel, it would not be classified as bad. You make it sound like somebody playing civilization and then complaining about the lack of fast paced moves and kills from FPS, though that might be precisely what the issue is here. People expecting something from a game, which it isn't trying to deliver as it clashes with what it tries to deliver.

Btw: sanahtlig, your voting range seems to be a little off. Something you would vote a 7, I would vote a 5, because .. you know .. mediocrity is usually at the middle point. Why don't you use the whole range of numbers?
I made a formula a while ago to detect trolls, but yorhel rejected it due to fear of false positive. Trial runs on random people told me that the majority of people vote with an average around 6-7, not an average around 5 and 2-4 is used way less than intended. The scale really is screwed, yet it sort of works anyway because the majority is screwing it like that.
#41 by pabloc
2015-08-10 at 15:49
Trial runs on random people told me that the majority of people vote with an average around 6-7, not an average around 5 and 2-4 is used way less than intended. The scale really is screwed, yet it sort of works anyway because the majority is screwing it like that.
It makes perfect sense. Generally, people don't choose stuff to read completely at random, but pick something that seems interesting to them (based on tags, description, reviews, or whatever). You can bump into absolute thrash that way, but the probability of finding something at least semi-decent is much higher. Also, note that some people don't vote on VNs they didn't finish, so they probably won't rate exceptionally unreadable titles they had to drop. So yeah, it's natural to have more good titles than bad ones on your list.
#42 by d2o
2018-09-25 at 07:46
So, any idea who is the new owner of their titles now? or where their staff went?Last modified on 2018-09-25 at 09:44
#43 by shonenkun
2018-11-17 at 15:52
I'm pretty sure that you're overestimating the value of all those scores platforms. If they allow accounts registered on disposable emails (most web-sites do), then there is no reason to consider them valuable. One crazy fan with no life is enough to make an impact on the scores, especially if they are creative (would use different nicknames, emails all the time) and if moderators don't hunt these people.

For example: MyAnimeList where they have a whole topic full of messages indicating these fake voters with dead accounts made with one purpose - to raise the score.

Scores are always inaccurate and it's best to just not look at them.

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