"no translation"

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#1 by kidlat020
2010-06-19 at 15:51
what the f**k? I remember reading this particular line, but to actually read this again here on vndb, and seeing the "no translation" at vndb's bottom page, I lol'd hard.

Thanks for making my day yorhel/echomateria.Last modified on 2014-02-13 at 17:24
#2 by chikan
2010-06-19 at 18:48
It was actually me that added it, thank me
#3 by anotherperson
2010-06-20 at 00:02
Yeah. Thank you. I laughed pretty hard for that...
#4 by kidlat020
2010-06-20 at 11:08
chikan you are an epic win =)Last modified on 2010-06-20 at 11:09
#5 by atlantima
2011-07-07 at 21:12
What is that line actually supposed to say?
#6 by jadamassa12
2013-08-05 at 14:59
^ Someone care to explain?
#7 by katzy07
2013-12-02 at 02:24
So is this translation just really bad? Is that why it's in the 7 range on this site and has a 90 on erogamescape?

Or does this have more to do with western tastes differing from the Japanese?
#8 by albedo
2013-12-02 at 02:48
Tastes, probably.
#9 by mdc321
2013-12-02 at 02:54
The translation is rather poor. Lots of jokes get lost. It's better to read this in Japanese.
#10 by kaku
2013-12-02 at 07:21
So is this translation just really bad? Is that why it's in the 7 range on this site and has a 90 on erogamescape?
The translation is very bad. It has mistranslation, and the text has been dumbed down.
#11 by sanahtlig
2013-12-02 at 17:07
The game is old. Back when it came out in 2001, it was a really good game. Now it's merely decent. Times change; bars get raised.
#12 by gerardlonewolf
2013-12-02 at 18:00
I don't think times has anything to do with the low votes. I'd rather believe in people having a shitty uhh I meant different taste.Last modified on 2013-12-02 at 18:03
#13 by vario
2014-01-24 at 10:48
And what about remake? Is there anyone who has tried it?
#14 by kilicool64
2014-01-24 at 11:00
^ From what I've heard, it only got a single vote on EGS. Given that the site is blocked in Germany, I can't verify that though. I honestly wouldn't expect much of it though, given that Romeo wasn't involved with it.
#15 by vario
2014-01-24 at 19:47
Yes, you are right. PC ver. got 1 vote (85) and PS3 got 2 (81 and 20) votes.
#16 by manwithnoplan
2014-02-12 at 02:38
Deleted comment to avoid needless argumentsLast modified on 2014-02-12 at 21:18
#17 by pendelhaven
2014-02-12 at 12:40
^ there's a difference between how faithful the TL is from the original and outright typos and whatnot. This was just outright butchered, no arguments.

I've played this long ago and frankly it was forgettable. I wonder how it was from the original. Not that it matters.Last modified on 2014-02-12 at 12:43
#18 by cross
2014-02-12 at 14:23
Choose one:

A: read the game in the only language most non-Japanese fans can understand, enjoy it despite some flaws, start the next "butchered" VN.

B: whine how bad the translation is, cry at the ignorancy of the uneducated masses devouring a *gasp* ruined destroyed fucked up shitpile of english text, weep over your Kanji textbooks at how blind everyone except you is. And write Romeo a fanmail in broken Japanese - he will appreciate it.Last modified on 2014-02-12 at 14:26
#19 by gerardlonewolf
2014-02-12 at 19:42
enjoy it despite some flaws,

You're being general, I know. But in Kazoku Keikaku it's not just "some flaws". For example, I remember there's a scene involving Aoba and a crow which was probably a metaphor of some sort, but the English text makes absolutely no sense at all, both in meaning and context. It was bewildering and I was like, wtf am I reading, is this English?Last modified on 2014-02-12 at 19:44
#20 by cross
2014-02-12 at 21:03
I won't deny that it's possible (or even common) that certain content gets lost in the translation process, especially in the old official translations, which are sometimes mediocre and sometimes pretty shitty (first Edelweiss version?).
This is more or less known, but there is a notion that honestly pisses me off. It's the standpoint that Aaeru would call "elitist", but I just call it "expert weaboo assholery". It is the extremely arrogant opinion that the English community does it "wrong". That the ONLY way to properly read VNs is learning 3000 Kanji and show the English peasants how expert and insightful you are. Some guys take this to a fundamentalist level, like some angry muslim preacher.

Everybody is free to read how they want, but the constant disrespect for translations with usefull sentences like "it is completely butchered...", "nobody will ever translate Romeo VNs to something readable" or "you don't know jackshit, because you just read a shitty translation" gets on my nerves.

Most people here can't read Japanese and have no desire to change that. Most people enjoy themselves with the translations they get, without running to the next language course. Most people don't give a fuck about authors they can't read and that's their right, without getting sneered on by some wapanese scholars, who just happen to know the Japanese VN scene a bit better. So what? Does this mean we are wrong and incompetent? I don't give a shit about Nasu's grammatical style, as long as I can enjoy Shinji's and Shirou's adventures. I enjoyed myself immensely with the stuff, even if the translation has some mistakes or doesn't match the author's original style. You only read the original versions now? Great, cool story bro, but I'm happy with what I got. That's all I have to say on this matter.Last modified on 2014-02-12 at 21:06
#21 by pendelhaven
2014-02-12 at 21:09
^ which in turn makes my stance stand very high that fan TL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial TL. I'd even argue that before Kouryuu (ex-fan TLer) entered Mangagamer, Mangagamer was just simply so bad. MG as far as translation goes is awesome superb.

as for learning JP, yeah I know it takes a long time but then again you have to start somewhere. And it's a real misconception that what people use to say 5 years isn't really "5 years of hard grinding" but rather "5 years of [my pace] kind of grind".Last modified on 2014-02-12 at 21:13
#22 by manwithnoplan
2014-02-12 at 21:16
@18 Sorry if I came off as arrogant, I probably did now that I look back on it. Though I never said you couldn't enjoy it, that's why I said its like children watching cartoons, they still enjoy it- as pretentious as that may sound I thought it was accurate. Since an argument was certainly not my intention by any means, I'll delete my comment because I can tell its going to derail the thread.
#23 by cross
2014-02-12 at 21:19
^ there is no need to censor yourself, as this thread is about (bad) translations and the way the VN community deals with this matter. This is something that gets voiced pretty often, so it might as well progress naturally.

As with the "children" metaphor, that's exactly what I mean. It implies that I can't really understand and analyse a VN unless it's Japanese, but the characters, their motivations, the conflicts, the themes and so on are also there in English. Even with some jokes and Kanji puns gone, I can still consume it as any other kind of literature. People read translation worldwide. The bible you (maybe) read is also a translation, maybe even a bad translation. Does this invalidate you as a Christian? Does it mean you don't know jackshit about religion, because you can't read Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic? Moses and Jesus stay the same, they do the same things, even if it sounds a bit different in each version.Last modified on 2014-02-12 at 21:30
#24 by manwithnoplan
2014-02-12 at 21:28
I guess, but the original topic is about a joke of "no translation" along with an explanation. I pretty much explicated a related topic, which wasn't really necessary to be honest.

If I wanted a heated debate about bad/good translations I would have made an appropriate thread myself, or posted in one at the very least.Last modified on 2014-02-12 at 21:29
#25 by moogy
2014-02-12 at 23:25
regardless of language or source material translation is always going to be an imperfect art, not sure why anyone would try to argue otherwise

here's an example I was looking at the other day:

basically the first fucking sentence of The Metamorphosis is impossible to render correctly outside of German (or at least in English) so you're never going to be reading Kafka's intended wording if you don't know German

for people like me this is a pretty big deal, I think the way the author chooses to phrase things and how he expresses them is pretty much just as important as the "content" itself and that wording/prose is indeed inexorably tied to the meaning of a given passage anyway

even if you have a highly accurate, well-written translation, you're going to lose out on the original context and your interpretation of the passage in question is basically subject to the translator's whims, it's just something that goes with the territory

anyway, debating about the nature of translation aside, most VN translations are quite simply very bad and should be embarrassing to read, let alone produce. even good translations like Grisaia aren't really going to give you the same feel as the Japanese text simply because English and Japanese are so different and separated by a massive cultural/linguistic gulf but fuck, at least it's decent English that won't give you an aneurysm trying to parse. I think most people would have much less of a problem with VN translations if they were all as good as the ones by koestl and Makoto

also, the bible is notorious for being horribly re-re-re-translated over the centuries and bringing up christianity is fucking stupid in the first place, if you're a christian please do us all a favor and kill yourself so you can meet god faster or whatever the fuck