| #26 by sanahtlig 2016-05-07 at 13:44 | < report >I'm fine with a static list + free text field if that's easier to implement. |
| #27 by scorp 2016-05-08 at 02:11 | < report >Seems as there is no other way lets implement static list + text searchable field, at least. But I really doubt that it would be less than 100 engines, anyway search by first letters work in any dropdown list by default, so should not be a big issue. |
| #28 by wutlolski 2019-02-01 at 10:07 | < report >From what was discussed previously, I'd vote for tag-link + free-text as the most convenient solution for an end-user. But static list would be sufficient enough in the majority of cases. |
| #29 by spidey01 2019-02-03 at 17:52 | < report >Dealing with engines would be complicated anyway you slice it. They can vary by release and platform quite a bit as well. Different releases might change a lot even on the same platform. I'm not sure how many people are familiar with VN engines either. For example I can tell that game files for r14492 and r26773 look so similar that they could be related engines and in turn both are clearly different from r23784. But I would need to do symbol extraction/disassembly to draw more than a superficial conclusion. Or at least do STFW homework because I am not familiar with VN engines. By contrast for some popular genres in the 3D world, I might be able to tell what the engine is within a few minutes of poking around. Because I know more about engines like Id, Source, Unreal, Unity, etc than visual novel engines. Where in I have a major lack of knowledge. |
| #30 by wutlolski 2019-02-08 at 11:19 | < report >That is exactly why it would be good to have this info in vndb. Now you have to do STFW regardless, and this type of trivia often is not readily available even for translated titles. They can vary by release and platform quite a bit as well. Different releases might change a lot even on the same platform. I can agree here, vn engines mostly does not offer cross-platform compatibility. Sometimes translators port titles to different engines. But this shouldn't be a problem if entry is tied to a particular release.Last modified on 2019-02-08 at 11:23 |
| #31 by Yorhel 2019-07-14 at 08:38 | < report >So I'm working on an engine field now, but I'm not sure what to do with Engine. Ideally I'd like to avoid having to manually edit 2000+ entries for which we already have the information, but the problem with that tag is that it applies to VN entries. Applying that tag to all releases of the tagged VNs may cause some releases to be listed with the wrong engine. On the other hand, at a quick glance I can't find many VNs where this would be a problem. r42058 perhaps? Are there more? |
| #32 by kiru 2019-07-14 at 08:53 | < report >I know of Kimi to Yumemishi , but nobody tagged that anyway. It is rather rare and probably okay to just ignore. If anyone ever stumbles over something wrongly tagged, it's probably easier to change it then. edit: Although actually, I think a lot of ren'py ports for localizations/translations do exist. Okay, might be more of a problem after all. Depends on if those were actually tagged of course. Some Sono Hana games are an example like Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o - New Gen! .Last modified on 2019-07-14 at 08:58 |
| #33 by Ileca 2019-07-14 at 09:00 | < report >MG are porting some games to another engine when required. Thanks to the useful producer filter (NEW), I was able to quickly retrieve that Tick! Tack! didn't originally run on Kirikiri but was ported to it by MG. Like Tick Tack before it, Really? Really! ran on a game engine developed by Navel which, while solid, had a pretty serious flaw–it doesn’t run properly on systems that don’t support Japanese text. andFor Tick Tack, I ported the game to the Kirikiri game engine, a commonly used Japanese visual novel system (you can read about that port endeavor here). I would be cautious when a game was localized by someone else but I don't think the error margin is big enough to lose the 2000+ entries. You are showing a browser-based release but there are also consoles and smartphones (well, that seems obvious). PS: did I already say how grateful I am for the producer filter? |
| #34 by sakurakoi 2019-07-14 at 09:29 | < report > Applying that tag to all releases of the tagged VNs may cause some releases to be listed with the wrong engine. There should be little cause for concern especially when engines are tied to platforms.Different releases might change a lot even on the same platform. No, those cases are very rare, meaning that they still exist but it is far from "a lot", very far. It more often becomes an Alternative Version even, another VN entry, when the engine is completely changed (and not just updated to support a new windows OS).The most I'm concerned about is how an engine field will be implemented like discussed three years ago. After all, not few companies use their own custom engine and who is gonna remember every name? Few, none perhaps. "Custom Engine" or "In-house Engine (Company Name)" would work better for searching and informative purposes than to select (and maintain) a huge list of names. Of course a field for hook-codes and the option to select "No code required" is as useful as having the field left requesting for the info by default and another as more urgent one. I.e: -has hook-code -no information -unknown hook-code -needs no hook-code Hook-codes or rather the lack of needing one could also be bound as default to certain engines. Although I am afraid that I am not well aware of which standard and programming each hook-software possesses. I actually can not say that I know whether one needs a h-code for one h-software while the other does not. I am though well aware that software updates can cause engines to require a h-code... like recent versions of Wolf RPG maker (which only outputs half of the text the last time I checked) |
| #35 by alto 2019-07-14 at 21:46 | < report >Could you dump all the tagged games with more than one release? That might make the list more manageable. Maybe exclude trials if there are still lots; can't be many VNs which change engine between the trial and release (I pity any devs who did!). |
| #36 by Yorhel 2019-07-15 at 04:11 | < report >#35: Even excluding trials that's still 773 VNs. |
| #37 by rampaa 2019-07-15 at 04:32 | < report >I don't think any VN would be ported into RPG Maker later on. Also any game that has all of its releases in only one language and platform would not have any ports, probably.Last modified on 2019-07-15 at 04:36 |
| #38 by Yorhel 2019-07-15 at 04:43 | < report >If I add a "must be available in multiple languages" requirement, that filters it down to 468 VNs. Still quite a lot. link But apart from the first few low-id entries, I suspect the large majority of those still use the same engine. |
| #39 by Ileca 2019-07-15 at 05:21 | < report >I was gonna say keep amateur translations but then I remembered Saya no Uta was ported to PONScripter. I believe Ren'py is versatile enough to not have to port a game to another engine. It supports non-english languages and is cross-platform (linux, mac, ios, android, even has a beta for html5). |
| #40 by kiru 2019-07-15 at 06:51 | < report >@34: The hook-code information is useless, as every single game out there needs those. Most programs just come with certain detection features that "find" them for you if they recognize the game. But which ones they are capable of finding, that depends on the program. And I don't think it makes sense for vndb to provide information on this. Doubly so, as this also changes by game version, which we do not track at all.Last modified on 2019-07-15 at 06:53 |
| #41 by Yorhel 2019-07-15 at 08:21 | < report >How not to write a conversion script. |
| #42 by sanahtlig 2019-07-15 at 16:53 | < report >About hook codes: These can be hooker-specific. For example, an H-code written for Lilim's White Blue that works with ITHVNR didn't work with Textractor, even though Textractor was built on top of VNR. Seems to me that an H-code "database" would need to list the game version and hooker version tested for the sake of completeness. Engine detection and hook code aren't equivalent. Some games allocate memory dynamically and therefore the H-code needs to be to found anew every time the game starts. Obviously engine detection is much more useful in those situations.Last modified on 2019-07-15 at 17:11 |
| #43 by bathhouse-owner 2023-04-26 at 02:14 | < report >Resurrecting this thread to ask two important questions: What can be done about repeated entries? For example, AdvHD and ADV Player HD seem to be the same engine. I confirmed it using r21537 and r52352. Also, some engines have versions that are wholly different from one another, like Kirikiri, in form of original kirikiri, kirikiri2, and kirikiriZ. Do different engine versions that are incompatible with one another deserve their own entry? Side note: SiglusEngine seems to be a development of RealLive, |
| #44 by Ezezin 2023-04-26 at 13:52 | < report >It's in the rules (d3#3): Please only provide the name of the engine, not its version. When providing an engine that is not in the list, please first check the database for other releases with the same engine, so that all releases use a consistent name for that engine. In other words: For your first question, if they are the same engine, only one of those names should be used. For your second question, we don't make distinction between versions, even if they are wholly different or incompatible between each other. |
| #45 by carri-mihome 2023-04-27 at 01:18 | < report >#43 What can be done about repeated entries If it's the same thing, take the more official name (ADV Player HD looks to be this? It's ADVプレイヤHD on Japanese websites), then edit the releases with the less official one. The engine list will fix itself. Can you check if Willadv / WillADV is also related to (WillPlus') ADV Player HD? Other possible duplicates (for somebody else to check): I'm 89% sure RGSS Player is RPG Maker. PixiJS appears to be tied or related to GDevelop but I don't know what's their relationship or which should be listed as the engine. I also suspect Macromedia Shockwave may be misattributed Flash Player (which should drop the "Player" part) or Macromedia Director (to my poor understanding, Shockwave is merely a web build of a Director project?). Likewise, Macromedia. AdvSystem and ADVSYS3 sound like they're related but IDK, and advs might be related to them or to ADVScripter. #44 Please only provide the name of the engine, not its version we don't make distinction between versions, even if they are wholly different or incompatible between each other Has there been a consensus reached on what counts as a version vs. a separate engine? The other thread doesn't have it.There's a single RPG Maker family category (well, two, technically), even for the console branch (v19586) - granted, it's not a VN-oriented tool in the first place - but other engines get separate iteration/generation entries. Unreal Engine is treated as a single engine on Wikipedia so the 4 could be dropped, though the differences between its generations are quite more noticeable than in indie engines. I don't know how different the AliceSoft Systems are (currently split), or AGES Mk2 and AGES 7.0, or CatSystem, or Ren'ai Simulation Tkool, or Comic Maker 1-3. There's also AI, AI4, AI5, AIW, AI5WIN and AI6WIN. Multimedia Fusion 2 sounds like an expanded version of MMF1, although not compatible with MMF1 projects. There also are a few fringe cases of a duplicate where a VN release is a bundle of VNs using two different engines and due to how the current engine input field works they're listed as a new engine (link or link). And since the other thread says unnamed custom engines shouldn't be listed, should HTML5 be removed from releases? |
| #46 by carri-mihome 2023-04-28 at 00:32 | < report >Zurizuri engine (currently Memento Engine?) is customized Unity, which is still Unity. The devs brag about it on Patreon, but isn't it just them making their own (possibly more shiny) Naninovel? |
| #47 by bathhouse-owner 2023-04-29 at 20:23 | < report >Small correction: Kirikiri does have a compatibility layer to port old games. So yeah, I'd say it can stay as one entry. Can you check if Willadv / WillADV is also related to (WillPlus') ADV Player HD? willadv is, actually! Turns out, WillADV is the old version of ADV Player HD. They have the same folder structure but they're different enough to warrant separate entries. Both were developed by WillPlus. (I still believe ShiinaRio must be related to both somehow, but I digress).The four releases of the other willadv are misstags - 3 are Adv Player HD and the other is a compilation/bundle which is too big to check right now, but the individual games use a mix-match of engines so I'm just gonna mark it as unknown. Further, I suggest leaving the engine field empty for game bundles unless they all use the same engine. Has there been a consensus reached on what counts as a version vs. a separate engine? I'd like to know this also.In my opinion, engines like CatSystem/CatSystem2 and WillADV/Adv Player HD can be considered separate engines because they're nearly/fully rewritten from the ground up and are incompatible between each other. Welp, I should've checked better. |
| #48 by eientei 2023-05-09 at 01:12 | < report > I also suspect Macromedia Shockwave may be misattributed Flash Player (which should drop the "Player" part) or Macromedia Director (to my poor understanding, Shockwave is merely a web build of a Director project?). Likewise, Macromedia. I'm quite familiar with MacroMind/Macromedia/Adobe Director, Shockwave and Flash so can probably comment on this.* Company name: Either should be dropped or to use Adobe for all 3. They bought Macromedia (who bought MacroMind) and renamed the products to use their name. * Shockwave: It is indeed a web build of a Director project. Director could not export .SWF files, but could embed or use them within exported projects. * "Macromedia" engine: To the pits of hell with it. Simple guide for breaking up the "Macromedia" engine: 1. If the game uses .x32 files or has an "Xtras" folder: Director 2. Otherwise most likely Flash I'm 89% sure RGSS Player is RPG Maker. I believe this comes from the FileDescription property of the game's EXE which says "RGSS Player". It should be merged in with RPG Maker.On the same subject as the "HTML5" engine is the "Java script" engine |
| #49 by bathhouse-owner 2023-05-19 at 10:30 | < report >More duplicates: * Imosurume/Imoscripter is actually QLIE. Imosurume is just the internal/company name of the engine. edit: fixed * TamoGameSystem also seems to be SoftPal ADV System, unless TamoGameSystem is the actual name of the engine. edit: fixed There's also AI, AI4, AI5, AIW, AI5WIN and AI6WIN. Man you can really follow the development history of this engine."AI" was elf and Silky's in-house engine, the very first version released for PC88 and developed as needed for platforms of that era, going through four major revisions. And then the devs likely decided to rewrite it for Windows (considering the name AI5WIN), AI6WIN being the last version of it before elf went kaput. Heck, it even survived bankruptcy (somewhat), as Silky Engine/GSIWin seems to have been strongly influenced by "AI". No surprise, as Silky's Plus originated from Silky's. AIW and AI System 6 seem to be oddities according to this guy, but in my opinion it's better to mark them as unknown. Anyway. I propose merging AI, AI2, AI3 (not in the database), AI4, and AI5 into "AI System" since that's the most official name we'll ever get. As for AI5WIN and AI6WIN... maybe "AI System WIN"? Either way, I'd leave judgement to someone that knows this engine better.Last modified on 2023-05-19 at 20:51 |
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