Feature request: Add "Engine" field to releases

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#26 by sanahtlig
2016-05-07 at 13:44
I'm fine with a static list + free text field if that's easier to implement.
#27 by scorp
2016-05-08 at 02:11
Seems as there is no other way lets implement static list + text searchable field, at least. But I really doubt that it would be less than 100 engines, anyway search by first letters work in any dropdown list by default, so should not be a big issue.
#28 by wutlolski
2019-02-01 at 10:07
From what was discussed previously, I'd vote for tag-link + free-text as the most convenient solution for an end-user. But static list would be sufficient enough in the majority of cases.
#29 by spidey01
2019-02-03 at 17:52
Dealing with engines would be complicated anyway you slice it. They can vary by release and platform quite a bit as well. Different releases might change a lot even on the same platform.

I'm not sure how many people are familiar with VN engines either.

For example I can tell that game files for r14492 and r26773 look so similar that they could be related engines and in turn both are clearly different from r23784. But I would need to do symbol extraction/disassembly to draw more than a superficial conclusion. Or at least do STFW homework because I am not familiar with VN engines.

By contrast for some popular genres in the 3D world, I might be able to tell what the engine is within a few minutes of poking around. Because I know more about engines like Id, Source, Unreal, Unity, etc than visual novel engines. Where in I have a major lack of knowledge.
#30 by wutlolski
2019-02-08 at 11:19
That is exactly why it would be good to have this info in vndb. Now you have to do STFW regardless, and this type of trivia often is not readily available even for translated titles.

They can vary by release and platform quite a bit as well. Different releases might change a lot even on the same platform.
I can agree here, vn engines mostly does not offer cross-platform compatibility. Sometimes translators port titles to different engines. But this shouldn't be a problem if entry is tied to a particular release.Last modified on 2019-02-08 at 11:23
#31 by yorhel
2019-07-14 at 08:38
So I'm working on an engine field now, but I'm not sure what to do with Engine. Ideally I'd like to avoid having to manually edit 2000+ entries for which we already have the information, but the problem with that tag is that it applies to VN entries. Applying that tag to all releases of the tagged VNs may cause some releases to be listed with the wrong engine.

On the other hand, at a quick glance I can't find many VNs where this would be a problem. r42058 perhaps? Are there more?
#32 by kiru
2019-07-14 at 08:53
I know of Kimi to Yumemishi , but nobody tagged that anyway. It is rather rare and probably okay to just ignore. If anyone ever stumbles over something wrongly tagged, it's probably easier to change it then.

edit: Although actually, I think a lot of ren'py ports for localizations/translations do exist. Okay, might be more of a problem after all. Depends on if those were actually tagged of course. Some Sono Hana games are an example like Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o - New Gen! .Last modified on 2019-07-14 at 08:58
#33 by eacil
2019-07-14 at 09:00
MG are porting some games to another engine when required.
Thanks to the useful producer filter (NEW), I was able to quickly retrieve that Tick! Tack! didn't originally run on Kirikiri but was ported to it by MG.

Like Tick Tack before it, Really? Really! ran on a game engine developed by Navel which, while solid, had a pretty serious flaw–it doesn’t run properly on systems that don’t support Japanese text.
For Tick Tack, I ported the game to the Kirikiri game engine, a commonly used Japanese visual novel system (you can read about that port endeavor here).

I would be cautious when a game was localized by someone else but I don't think the error margin is big enough to lose the 2000+ entries.
You are showing a browser-based release but there are also consoles and smartphones (well, that seems obvious).

PS: did I already say how grateful I am for the producer filter?
#34 by sakurakoi
2019-07-14 at 09:29
Applying that tag to all releases of the tagged VNs may cause some releases to be listed with the wrong engine.
There should be little cause for concern especially when engines are tied to platforms.

Different releases might change a lot even on the same platform.
No, those cases are very rare, meaning that they still exist but it is far from "a lot", very far. It more often becomes an Alternative Version even, another VN entry, when the engine is completely changed (and not just updated to support a new windows OS).

The most I'm concerned about is how an engine field will be implemented like discussed three years ago. After all, not few companies use their own custom engine and who is gonna remember every name? Few, none perhaps. "Custom Engine" or "In-house Engine (Company Name)" would work better for searching and informative purposes than to select (and maintain) a huge list of names. Of course a field for hook-codes and the option to select "No code required" is as useful as having the field left requesting for the info by default and another as more urgent one.

-has hook-code
-no information
-unknown hook-code
-needs no hook-code

Hook-codes or rather the lack of needing one could also be bound as default to certain engines. Although I am afraid that I am not well aware of which standard and programming each hook-software possesses. I actually can not say that I know whether one needs a h-code for one h-software while the other does not. I am though well aware that software updates can cause engines to require a h-code... like recent versions of Wolf RPG maker (which only outputs half of the text the last time I checked)
#35 by alto
2019-07-14 at 21:46
Could you dump all the tagged games with more than one release? That might make the list more manageable. Maybe exclude trials if there are still lots; can't be many VNs which change engine between the trial and release (I pity any devs who did!).
#36 by yorhel
2019-07-15 at 04:11
#35: Even excluding trials that's still 773 VNs.
#37 by rampaa
2019-07-15 at 04:32
I don't think any VN would be ported into RPG Maker later on. Also any game that has all of its releases in only one language and platform would not have any ports, probably.Last modified on 2019-07-15 at 04:36
#38 by yorhel
2019-07-15 at 04:43
If I add a "must be available in multiple languages" requirement, that filters it down to 468 VNs. Still quite a lot. link

But apart from the first few low-id entries, I suspect the large majority of those still use the same engine.
#39 by eacil
2019-07-15 at 05:21
I was gonna say keep amateur translations but then I remembered Saya no Uta was ported to PONScripter.

I believe Ren'py is versatile enough to not have to port a game to another engine. It supports non-english languages and is cross-platform (linux, mac, ios, android, even has a beta for html5).
#40 by kiru
2019-07-15 at 06:51
@34: The hook-code information is useless, as every single game out there needs those. Most programs just come with certain detection features that "find" them for you if they recognize the game. But which ones they are capable of finding, that depends on the program. And I don't think it makes sense for vndb to provide information on this. Doubly so, as this also changes by game version, which we do not track at all.Last modified on 2019-07-15 at 06:53
#41 by yorhel
2019-07-15 at 08:21
How not to write a conversion script.
#42 by sanahtlig
2019-07-15 at 16:53
About hook codes: These can be hooker-specific. For example, an H-code written for Lilim's White Blue that works with ITHVNR didn't work with Textractor, even though Textractor was built on top of VNR. Seems to me that an H-code "database" would need to list the game version and hooker version tested for the sake of completeness.

Engine detection and hook code aren't equivalent. Some games allocate memory dynamically and therefore the H-code needs to be to found anew every time the game starts. Obviously engine detection is much more useful in those situations.Last modified on 2019-07-15 at 17:11


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