Cup Size field / Breast Size traits
|#26 by takata|
2016-02-28 at 00:10
|If you're going to insist that users find a character's stated cup size before using a trait, you should let them record the actual cup size instead of just recording the range it lies in.|
As a temporary solution, you could have a trait for every cup size from AA to Z, all requiring the cup size to be stated by the developer, but that would probably look really bad.
We seem to be in agreement that we should apply traits based on how a character's breasts look in their image, as opposed to sizes stated by the developer. The only questions left are how many traits to use, and what words we use to describe them.
link, link and link have 5-6 categories for bust size, but I don't think we need that many. Lets not have Funyuu since we don't need traits for average or unremarkable features. We can merge munyuu (flat) with hinyuu (small) since it's probably hard to tell the difference between the two. We can also merge Chounyuu (extremely large) with Bakunyuu (very large) since once they're _that_ big, exact size ceases to matter. To distinguish between Kyonyuu (large) and Bakunyuu (very large), use Danbooru's criteria: if one breast is bigger than their head (measure it in MS paint), use Bakunyuu.
So, three traits: Hinyuu, Kyonyuu, Bakunyuu.Last modified on 2016-02-28 at 00:18
|#27 by immlff|
2016-02-29 at 21:34
|It seems we have mostly agreed that cup size should be either dropped or moved to a specific field and traits should be reorganized to be based on breast's visual size.|
Regarding cup size, I don't mind moving it to a specific field, but this is up to Yorhel since he would need to implement it. Also, if we do it after all, we definitely should only record the official sizes provided by developers.
Regarding traits, there is no point to keep them tied to the cup sizes, what trait to use should be based purely on visual representation.
I'm certain that Bakunyuu and Chounyuu should be separate traits. Many people do find Bakunyuu attractive but Chounyuu can be too much even for them. There are also people who may want to specifically look for Chounyuu.
The difference between Munyuu and Hinnyuu is less pronounced, but I still don't see a problem with using both. It shouldn't be too hard to determine the correct trait if we go with the definition that Munyuu is completely flat and Hinnyuu is larger than flat but still fairly small.
Agree about not needing the trait for average looking breasts.
I'm not completely sure about naming. We can use their Japanese names (kyonyuu, bakunyuu, etc) or we can adopt eng names from Danbooru and add Japanese ones as aliases.
In this case, I think I would prefer the latter. With eng names the purpose/usage of the trait would be more readily recognizable. But I wouldn't mind if we go with ja names either.
|#28 by vyseinglebard|
2016-02-29 at 22:13
|I personally think using the same terminology for Traits for characters and tags for the VNs themselves is a good idea.|
Cups themselves can be very varied. Either due to the style of the game or country of origin (though most are Japanese). Its also important to remember that cup size really isn't a size. More of a shape. So a 34C can be bigger than a 28D, though it might look like the reverse.
So really cup size is a stat supplied by the creators which is as real as dimensions and weight. They are essentially very much in-game.
I like the idea of some sort of suggested measure. Although if the supplied description from the creator mentions the term I think that should weigh in its favor.
hinnyuu flat chest - self descriptive
funyuu normal size - noticeable enough tell the sex of the character
kyonyuu large breasts - typically big enough for a character to grab a handful
bakunyuu big breasts - as big or bigger that the character's head
chounyuu huge breasts - breasts big enough cover the character abdomen.
is a suggestion I have seen. I think you could cut funyuu and imply it, but it gets tricky when the age of the character is in question. So you could say flat chested for their age. So as a trait it would not be relevant for a child or man.
just my tupence
|#29 by skorpiondeath|
2016-04-10 at 16:29
|I dont want to bother but what has been decided about the cup size field? In the last months cup sizes have been consistently added to "Description" field but I think that that's not the place they should belong. The faster cup size get implemented the less cup size infos in "Description" field we would have to move.|
@Takata: first congrats for your promotion! second maybe you are in a better position now to discuss and make it happen. thanks in advance.Last modified on 2016-04-10 at 16:30
|#30 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-28 at 12:59
|And 3 years later I will be back asking for a "*****" cup size field under Characters->"General Info" tab.|
Ok I'll hope this time it won't get rejected...
Here my reasonings on why we should have the cup size field:
1) it won't hurt anyone nor complicate any existing feature
2) easy implemented with a 1 char database field (maybe 2 if we consider "AA").
3) it will free descriptions, in fact many cup sizes are constantly added anyway in the description field (meaning there is an interest in adding them)
4) it does not interfere with traits Breast Size they can still be added for searching purpose
5) Producers put blood type, measures, height, fake birth date with no year why should cup size be the black sheep?
6) Answering before it get asked again! No cup size is just for producer "fantasy" size, it should not in any way rappresent reality. It's the same for measures they are just fantasy stuff made up for the reader...
7) No it's not a do or die feature, it's just my autism speaking... Cup sizes alone in the descriptions....why?!?!?
I hope yorhel will consider this field. It's just the only info missing from General Info.
|#31 by yorhel|
2019-10-30 at 07:22
|Alright, no objections to a cup size field from me.|
Just one question: Up to what character should the field go? Z might be a little extreme.
|#32 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-30 at 13:15
|@yorhel: they are abviously not related to reality...but producer like SQUEEZ tend to put exaggerated cup sizes...so Z is not that extreme: Belka Valentina|
But just check characters in Honoo no Haramase Oppai ★ Ero Appli Gakuen you'll find plenty of absurdly large cup sizes.
Also you could consider "AA" as a cup size too so maybe 2 char is betterLast modified on 2019-10-30 at 13:16
|#33 by yorhel|
2019-10-30 at 13:26
|"chars" is a pointless argument as it'll be an ENUM type and a dropdown box. Limiting the number of options to something reasonable is mainly a UI (and lazyness) concern.|
|#34 by kiru|
2019-10-30 at 16:10
|Then maybe limit it to what we have for traits? |
AA, A, B, C, D, E+, H to M and N+ Cup. And while at it, rename the trait E+ Cup , so it becomes "E to G Cup", for consistency and use that.
Of course, if you really need it at that point, that's another story. I personally don't really think so, but alas.Last modified on 2019-10-30 at 16:12
|#35 by rampaa|
2019-10-30 at 18:50
|We select release day from the dropdown box just fine. Which has 31 rows. Everything from AA to Z would only take up 27 rows. So I personally think AA to Z would be just fine.|
|#36 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-30 at 19:47
Then maybe limit it to what we have for traits?Limiting to trait options is not good in my opinion. It's like removing height field for a dropdown box with short, normal and tall, following the height traits.
The main focus is avoid putting cup sizes in description and that it's not gonna happen if we put H to M and N+ Cup since someone will want to put the "exact" size in the description again then.
I agree with rampaa a dropdown with AA to Z options will be fine. But if dropdown is too long I was thinking of a simple text input with maxlength 2.Last modified on 2019-10-30 at 19:48
|#37 by yorhel|
2019-10-30 at 19:58
Automatic conversion from trait to this new field for AA-D should be easy, but since we have a lot of these cup sizes in the description field as well, it may make sense to automate the conversion for as many of those entries as we can. If anyone's up for a painful challenge :) a query that automatically extracts D+ cup sizes from descriptions would help, listing the character id, cup size, and modified description without the cup size.
|#38 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-30 at 21:42
|Not sure I got them all, double check it Yorhel before you apply it! link|
Ok just saw some arrow --> and "AA", fixing those so just wait a bit! :P
Ok fixed both.
In case of arrows like x --> y being tits expansions I just putted original breast size of x
LoL just found a "AAA" cup size... -.- I hope is an error...
There are some "AAA" ok now query is fixed to handle those cases. It's up to you Yorhel if you want to put an entry for those or just substring it to "AA".
Ok there are some newline left when string is replaced. Just fixing those too.
Ok now \n from removed cup size lines are gone from description. I hope it's the final version nowLast modified on 2019-10-30 at 22:26
|#39 by beliar|
2019-10-30 at 22:27
|A question, but will we be ignoring the fact that cup sizes differ internationally?|
Basically there are assigned letter differences between EU/JP, US/AU and UK.
Most of the time this will not be a problem, as all the JP novels will be following the JP nomenclature, but in case there are OELVNs that feature cup sizes for girls, these most likely use the US nomenclature in the descriptions (for example: B size in US would be C in Japan).
|#40 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-30 at 22:46
these most likely use the US nomenclature in the descriptionsBut this would be true for height too, we don't use 5.11 feet for example...
If that problem wants to be addressed then we would need a dropdown choice for US nomenclature/JP Nomenclature that changes not just cup size field but also height, bust, waist, hips in feet/inches and weight in pounds
|#41 by rampaa|
2019-10-30 at 22:47
just found a "AAA" cup size... -.- I hope is an error...Justice has no limit. Triple justice banzai.
(Seriously though, AAA is a thing: link)
will we be ignoring the fact that cup sizes differ internationally?Quite honestly, I think we should just ignore it.
|#42 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-30 at 22:51
AAA is a thingSurely is since where it has been added it's because we don't have a trait to cover it. AA Cup should be AA- like E+Last modified on 2019-10-30 at 22:51
|#43 by beliar|
2019-10-30 at 22:55
But this would be true for height too, we don't use 5.11 feet for example...I think you misunderstood what I wanted to say. We use centimetres for height to be consistent. That's all and good.
However imagine that there is an OELVN that is incidentally set in Japan and the developers present us with the character descriptions, which include the cup sizes. Let's say, they say that a character has a cup size B. Does that mean they are using the US nomenclature, because they are the US developers, or are they using the JP nomenclature because the novel is set in Japan?
If the character's height is written in feet, we convert it before inputting it into our character entry. So, based on the same logic, if the dev explicitly uses the US cup sizes, we would have to convert it to JP size before inputting into our character entry.
Or we can just ignore the inconsistency and add whatever the dev says. That's what I am asking. Are we ignoring possible inconsistencies or not? We have to make up our mind before the system goes into effect.
|#44 by rampaa|
2019-10-30 at 23:03
We have to make up our mind before the system goes into effectThis is not a new problem we will be facing when this goes live though. Breast Size is already a thing. C Cup and B Cup already exist.
I honestly think ignoring it is the sane option here.Last modified on 2019-10-30 at 23:03
|#45 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-30 at 23:04
I think you misunderstood what I wanted to say.Yes I did :P
However imagine that there is an OELVN that is incidentally set in Japan and the developers present us with the character descriptions, which include the cup sizes. Let's say, they say that a character has a cup size B. Does that mean they are using the US nomenclature, because they are the US developers, or are they using the JP nomenclature because the novel is set in Japan?If they don't explicitly state that in their page I'll assume they put it in their native nomenclature. But maybe they just did the Japan conversion for us. But since we cannot guess, I think I would gladly put whatever they have written in their page. To be honest you will find plenty of cup sizes that don't respect reality measures anyway. That's not even close to a V (Belka Valentina) if this is a L (Momoi Madoka). Ill go with rampaa and say we just ignore the inconsistencies.Last modified on 2019-10-30 at 23:06
|#46 by beliar|
2019-10-30 at 23:08
Ill go with rampaa and say we just ignore the inconsistencies.I'm okay with that, as long as we agree to follow that logic.
In other words - developer is always right. :-P
|#47 by rampaa|
2019-10-30 at 23:10
developer is always rightExcept when they try to romanise Japanese names. In that case, they are almost always wrong!
|#48 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-31 at 00:23
|Ok I'll repost the final version here: link|
Found another 37 entries with just "Cup:" instead of "Cup size:".
Yorhel I made ":" a prerequisite char to find the pattern inside description, maybe we could find more without but I think it gets too dangerous to make an automatic replace without it.Last modified on 2019-10-31 at 00:23
|#49 by psychopatate|
2019-10-31 at 12:03
rename the trait E+ Cup , so it becomes "E to G Cup"No, the E+ Cup trait is an alias for "large breasts", when you just want to find big breasts, you search for E+, and H to M and N+ cups show up too, that makes sense.
But I would agree that H to M trait doesn't make much sense with that new system.
|#50 by skorpiondeath|
2019-10-31 at 12:24
H to M trait doesn't make much sense with that new systemThat depends if there is a way to search for those field or not. If there are filters with cup min, cup max sliders like for heigth and weight then H to M becomes useless, but it's nice to have japan term "Bakunyuu" (and N+ "Chounyuu") associated to sizes.
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