Bunny Black 2 -GD-

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#1 by gabezhul
2016-01-28 at 20:43
So the TL is out. Since I wrote a review for the first game I feel obligated to do the same for this. Expect one sometime early next week.

Aside of that, I just got the game installed, but I am getting up early tomorrow (like every day, work + commuting eats up 12 hours of every one of my weekdays -.-'), so I can't say anything about the game yet. It shouldn't hold you back though, discuss away at your heart's content.
#2 by wilson
2016-01-29 at 20:01
Anyone know if there is any extra content in NG+?
#3 by jazz957
2016-01-29 at 20:05
There wasn't in the first game. No idea if it's different in this one.
#4 by harleyquin
2016-01-29 at 20:14
NG+ only provides two new units if players don't have the first game installed, otherwise it's four. Aside from this the only advantage is an easier start at the beginning since there are stronger generic units which carried over from the first round.Last modified on 2016-01-30 at 01:46
#5 by wilson
2016-01-29 at 21:15
Would those units be liz and Maki? Also does anyone know if there's any reason to 100% every map I noticed the map clear menu in the extras
#6 by harleyquin
2016-01-29 at 21:22
Yes the bonus units are Liz and Maki (the latter is especially handy for a first run). Players who are thorough and clear the map to 100% get to carry over the fully explored map for that floor to subsequent playthroughs.
#7 by wilson
2016-01-29 at 21:30
Was there an import save function? I didn't receive Liz and Maki until I completed my first run.
#8 by harleyquin
2016-01-29 at 21:42
Install the first game first before doing a first run on Bunny Black 2. If everything works properly then Liz and Maki are unlocked right off the bat.
#9 by whitetragedy
2016-01-29 at 22:34
Is there a guide for this game?
#10 by harleyquin
2016-01-29 at 22:47
Japanese softhouse chara wiki has walkthroughs and data on every single game that's ever been released. Not that it matters to people who won't touch a game unless it sees an English translation of some sort.
#11 by wilson
2016-01-30 at 00:34
I take it to get Loguis's units I have to get there again on NG+ right? Also were the floor masters that we didn't see introduced somewhere in the previous game?
#12 by harleyquin
2016-01-30 at 00:41
Ah, I had forgotten about Loguis' two apprentices who are definitely a NG+ exclusive. As for your second question, finish one run and you'll have your answer once you cross-reference with the dialogue in the first game (essentially the only masters who matter are those who you actually meet in the game).
#13 by wilson
2016-01-30 at 01:19
Then wasn't Parshy in the first game aswell? I think I remember a character that was voiced but not shown... jeez I feel like a lorehound now.

{opening BB1 now...}

Side note: Searching through BB1 extra I remembered Koze had red insignia rather than pink in BB2 any reason why or artist changeLast modified on 2016-01-30 at 01:25
#14 by harleyquin
2016-01-30 at 01:44
Demons do age despite their incredibly long lifespans compared to humans. No surprise then that the character designs (Fozelotte in particular) evolve with each Bunny Black iteration.

Chances are if the characters got a mention in the first game they also appear in the second (unless they were killed off). Since I finished my playthroughs over 9 months ago, I'll need to run the game again to check the text just to be absolutely sure. As for the character you mentioned, not all of the ones significant to the plot of this game featured in the first game.Last modified on 2016-01-30 at 01:47
#15 by wilson
2016-01-30 at 02:14
Understood, I felt that the way the talked about loguis made me feel like I should know whom she is/was. There isn't any easy way to find out random floor masters other than playing BB1. And that's without going through text files, which I can't do with this PC.

Though all in all BB2 was pretty solid sequel, though nothing really changed other the combat system. Fun but could've been better.Last modified on 2016-01-30 at 02:15
#16 by harleyquin
2016-01-30 at 02:50
Logius IS mentioned in the first game, only in passing and with a picture of her right at the end if I recall. Since most of the important text can be replayed from the scene viewer in the extras, it's not hard to check if the need arises.

If you want fun with this franchise, the third one is where it's at. Best gameplay of the three and a massive time sink, only problem for those who can't read is the extra city-building mechanic and the complexities it brings.

From what I read from the translator forum, #3 will never see an English translation since there's a fundamental issue with the game engine which is interfering with the replacement of the text. So players get by either with trial and error or learn the language to a basic level to figure out enough of the interface.
#17 by gabezhul
2016-01-30 at 08:12
A few hours in. In some regards this game is better than its predecessor. For one, the story is more extensive and more evenly-paced, as there are lots of short events during crawling and returning to the palace that constantly trickle plot and characterization.

On the other hand, the grinding is painful as ever, and you generally need to have several levels on the bosses to beat them. I try to keep myself at least five levels ahead of the curve, and yet every boss-fight until now was a near-party-wipe. It's getting better now that I find better equipment and started getting more command points, but the first few hours of the game are unreasonably hard. Hell, I went into the game with a five-member party (Darx + Fairy + Antman + Slimer + Woolf) and I nearly got wiped in the very first random encounter! With three healers!

In fact, the entirety of Bueroza is more difficult than the subsequent Castle of Baldaquin. Even the dungeon floors are more complex.

Another big change is in the skill system. Now you have to buy and equip six skills on your party members by using skill-points they earn by leveling. Passive abilities also have to be equipped into the same slots, and while you can use the skill points to give direct stat-boosts, this greatly limits the customization potential of your characters, and Darx in particular. As far as I can see the first game's "healing tank" build is completely impossible in the sequel, as while he starts out with a weak healing skill, Darx can't seem to earn anything better (at least up to the point I played).

Overall the game is mixed bag for me this far. It is a fairly fun dungeon grinder (with emphasis on the grinding part), the cast is still good (especially now that they have some history behind them), Darx is still a poor-man's-Rance (which can be good or bad, depending on your opinion on everyone's favorite shark-toothed comedic-rapist) and now that there is more control over the battles, they are also much more fun than they were in the previous game. Overall a solid game, will probably finish it, but not world-shaking or anything.
#18 by gabezhul
2016-01-31 at 07:41
Update: I'm about twenty hours in (which isn't actually twenty real-life hours, as I used a speedhack to play the game a 3X speed) and my second impressions are less positive.

First off, character advancement slows down to a crawl around level 25. Secondly, the whole dungeon-crawling gameplay actually starts getting in the way. For example, there is a fairly dramatic chain of events that happen after exploring the Effervescent Sea dungeon a bit and the narrative sets up this tense "race against time" scenario... but then you have to keep exploring the rest of the annoying, convoluted dungeon at the same snail's pace as when you started, completely killing the pacing of the event.

Other issues include the boring skills (everything is unlocked around level 20, and half of the skills are just upgrades to others) with zero variety (all physical skill types and all magical skill types share the exact same template with just different elemental damage). The typical elemental rock-paper-scissors also doesn't work since, aside of the first few dungeons where one only fights angels that are all weak against dark magic, enemy parties always have a mixture of resistances, making tailoring parties to dungeons impossible. The only thing that really matters in this game is having several levels over your enemies, which is quite a pain in the ass since, as I mentioned before, leveling is ridiculously slow.

As for the plot, there are a couple of cringe-worthy moments that are on the same level as the first game (Marialis and Filliane go through the same creepy, stockholm-syndrome-mindbreak as Shia did; the story tries to portray Darx both as a sadistic rapist and a really caring, upstanding guy, and my personal favorite cringe moment; Forzelotte admitting that her paranoia about Darx and Kozelotte is just industrial-grade jealousy and how she would fight her daughter is she tried to seduce her husband. Keep in mind, Kozelotte is actually an eight years old child who is completely unaware of sexuality or seduction at this point.). Overall though the story is still slightly better. There is some mystery, decent comedy, character interactions are fun (when they are not creepy, that is) and it's generally not a complete waste of time. *looks back* Ouch, talk about damning with faint praise...
#19 by harleyquin
2016-01-31 at 12:19
Answer to the observations:

1. The narrative at that point seems like it wants to rush the player through, but that's nothing compared to further along the game when it REALLY wants the player to get going yet there's plenty of time to explore regardless.

2. If you haven't already figured this out by now, the skills in this game ARE EXACTLY THE SAME as the first. There are a couple of additions on the physical damage side which weren't in the first but otherwise it's the same formula as the first game. Not sure why you're getting your hopes up on something "revolutionary". As for party tailoring, it is doable by switching some members out for others who will benefit the party better because they help resist attacks which are most common for the dungeon in question. But since you're speed-running everything, that's a moot point.

3. Darx wants revenge against the angels who attacked his people; to him the sweetest form is to seduce the very attacks who served him and impregnate them with his seed. How sensible one finds this in plot writing varies by player, but this is the tone set from the first game and is consistent throughout this series.

If the game system is such a chore to complete even with cheats, there's always complete save files which can be downloaded online unlocking all scenes, including the story-based ones.
#20 by gabezhul
2016-01-31 at 14:32
If the game system is such a chore to complete even with cheats, there's always complete save files which can be downloaded online unlocking all scenes, including the story-based ones.
Please cut the passive-aggressive bullshit. Thank you very much.

That said, I finished the game. It was funny how the last few hours were one race against time after another and it was *still* hampered by the bloody annoying dungeon designs. Well, at least this time none of the dungeons gave me eye-strain, so there's that, I suppose...

The conclusion was also kinda meh. I liked some of the aspects of the epilogue, but the game ending on a ridiculous cliffhanger was a bit of dick move.

I'm going to write a review for this, though probably not today. I need to digest the experience a bit.
#21 by septo2
2016-01-31 at 18:37
Enjoying the game so far.Just passed Izana's dungeon,but that goddamn junkheap bone item/random encounter with 5 of them was harder then anything else in the game so far.

Liking the dungeons too.Many people keep saying they enjoyed first's gameplay more however I just feel it's plain better in this one.Now it actually feels like a dungeon crawler for one thing and you can sorta specialize too and also have different team combinations.

As for the story what can I say,seems better than the first one so far and Darx is still Darx...and also what Rance should've been(10/10 Stockholms)

So yea liking it so far,nothing amazing but I thinks it's pretty solid.I actually had more fun with this and BB1 than Dungeons travelers 2 that I'm also playing right now.Which is funny since that's considered one of the best ones out there(Gameplaywise ofc).Last modified on 2016-01-31 at 18:37
#22 by harleyquin
2016-01-31 at 18:48
"The only thing that really matters in this game is having several levels over your enemies, which is quite a pain in the ass since, as I mentioned before, leveling is ridiculously slow."

Quoting what you wrote, I just wrote the only conclusion that came to mind. Don't know why you're the one taking offence to "passive-aggressive bullshit" when you're the one complaining about how slow levelling is (it isn't when you have the right reserves, did you even bother to check?).

My opinion is just as useful/useless as yours, but I'm going to defend myself from pointless accusations. That said, this is a "review" of a game which was released in 2012 and is only being hyped up because non-Japanese speakers can actually understand what's going on in the game.
#23 by gabezhul
2016-01-31 at 19:37
^ I can't really follow your logic. The leveling is slow even with multiple Tutor passives. When you need 10k EXP for a level, it doesn't really matter whether you get 300 or 500 for an average battle, it still takes a long-ass time. This is an objective fact, and I don't see how pointing it out logically relates to a suggestion to download a save and skip gameplay altogether (which *is* a passive-aggressive suggestion, by the way).

As for your second paragraph; no, this is not a review. This is a general discussion. Also, I sincerely doubt people are particularly hyped about this game. It's an eroge that belongs to a fairly rare genre, the old-school, party-based dungeon crawler, and thus there are a lot of people who find it either nostalgic or an unusual experience, but I would say this game is pretty much treated the same way as its predecessor: a decent timesink for fans of the genre, not much else.
#24 by jazz957
2016-01-31 at 19:43
So have we figured out why the series is called Bunny Black? I mean there are no bunnygirls.

Although it's not the strangest name for a SofthouseChara game, when we have Out Vegetables. :PLast modified on 2016-01-31 at 19:47
#25 by gabezhul
2016-01-31 at 19:49
Yeah, I have been wondering about that myself for a while. I had a theory that it's because Forzelotte's horns kinda-sorta look like bunny ears, but it's a bit of a stretch.

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