Game inclusion in the DB

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#751 by asgryffynn
2021-05-07 at 18:16
< report >Actually, I don’t know if Conception off the same on the 3DS and Vita, but I can say, beyond reasonable doubt, if it isn’t VN, then neither are Ar Tonelico’s entries or even Fate/Extra, which I played side by side: extra had larger amounts of non dialogue gameplay and Conception was reliant on dialogue (NOT on a map) to move forward.

I don’t know what to tell you, the dungeon crawling itself involved almost no story aside of an encounter in the endgame. Shouldn’t it at least be classed as an hybrid? Because I swear I’ve seen some VNs with more non ADV story progression than this.
#752 by iwannarategames
2021-05-14 at 11:57
< report >So I watched this playthrough of Fate/Extella (link) and there doesn't seem to be much of a problem including it so far.

Does the gameplay/story ratio get worse throughout the game or something?
#753 by butterflygrrl
2021-05-16 at 18:14
< report >Mind Hacker -Omae no Kokoro wa Ore no Mono- There's an old discussion topic on the game where people were saying it was just an RPG, not enough of a VN to qualify. The wikipedia link lists it as a roguelike, not a VN. The japanese comments on DLsite also talk about it being a mystery dungeon to replay for the gameplay. The one VNDB commenter who played it says there was about ten minutes of VN-style introduction and then pure RPG.

So possibly this one should be dropped.Last modified on 2021-05-16 at 18:15
#754 by beliar
2021-05-17 at 16:13
< report >If only we had someone who has played the game and is able to weigh in on that... I penned a message to Harleyquin (t16066), as he rated the game and used to be pretty active here. Sadly, I see no activity within the last 4 months. We'll see what happens.
#755 by rampaa
2021-05-17 at 16:36
< report >t14830.26
#756 by beliar
2021-05-17 at 16:43
< report >Ah, I either wasn't aware of it, or completely forgot it... Oh, well. Not sure I want to pull the trigger on that game without actual proof it doesn't belong. Abbysaleros tried to play the trial but didn't get very far. Everything else I have read is just speculations.
#757 by beliar
2021-05-17 at 18:41
< report >
So I watched this playthrough of Fate/Extella (link) and there doesn't seem to be much of a problem including it so far.
I'm actually inclined to concur. From what I have seen on Youtube, F/E has about 50/50 story/gameplay ratio, where about 30 min of story is followed by 30 min of gameplay. And the story portion seems to fit our criteria - there is a lot of narration, and from what I have seen, the story/gameplay ratio doesn't really change later in the game, remaining at about 50/50.

So, the game seems to fit into the db as a hybrid.
#758 by ninius
2021-05-17 at 21:26
< report >link does this count as a vn?
#759 by beliar
2021-05-18 at 18:07
< report >Believe it or not, Harleyquin did answer me regarding Mind Hacker -Omae no Kokoro wa Ore no Mono-: t16066.2. Looking at his profile i can see he is not banned anymore, though I'm unsure when that was lifted. That said, he does consider the game to be a hybrid, so in absence of any other information I'll keep it in.
#760 by ninius
2021-05-21 at 12:15
< report >Beliar would you be so kind and quickly check the game I linked above? It's quite easy to check since it can be played in browser and loads quite fast. I'm not sure if it can be considered a vn or not..Last modified on 2021-05-21 at 12:16
#761 by beliar
2021-05-21 at 20:12
< report >Not sure. I don't really see it as a VN. It's weird even if we consider it an epistolary tale. While reading seems to be the most important thing here, the way we have to discover each text fragment by moving towards it rubs me the wrong way.

You may want to ask a secondary opinion from other mods. I wouldn't cause a tiff if it were included, but I wouldn't try to include it myself.
#762 by usagi
2021-05-23 at 18:53
< report >Can this link be included here? I am asking because it's very good nukige which was translated recently - but it's more interactive movie like School Days or basically clone of Sisters ~Natsu no Saigo no Hi~ but with 3DCG animation instead and with minimum amount of text. Still, within that text there are enough narration to qualify as vn, probably (occasional protagonist thoughts, map movement narration etc.).. I am not sure - so I am asking here.Last modified on 2021-05-23 at 19:32
#763 by beliar
2021-05-23 at 20:34
< report >I have 'played' through the demo and well, I personally wouldn't consider it a VN. It's a movie, albeit one made in Tyranoscript.

Funny you would mention School Days, which is itself so borderline, it might as well be here just at our sufferance. I think the only reason it was allowed in was because of the anime art. That said, School Days does allow you to pause the game in order to read at you own leisure, and it has subtitles for every part of the game.

link not only does not allow you to stop the movie (at least I didn't find a button that could do that), but it plays major parts without any subtitles. These two end up being deal-breakers for me, which is why I would consider it an interactive movie that occasionally allows you to make choices, instead of a visual novel.
#764 by kiru
2021-05-23 at 21:10
< report >I think the idea behind School Days was, that outside of being a "movie" it's like a typical branching visual novel. That's all.
#765 by iwannarategames
2021-05-24 at 08:04
< report >Why was School Days d15'd anyways? The description states it's "mod approved" which makes me think it's in a similar situation to Gyakuten Saiban. But does anyone actually unironically like School Days though? I doubt any of School Days "fans" (5 people at most) are gonna complain if it gets deleted, which it should for not using ADV or NVL.
#766 by beliar
2021-05-24 at 09:45
< report >Umm, Adv/Nvl presentation has no bearing on the inclusion/removal of the games. And School Days is an interactive movie, but the fact you can pause it at any time and read it at your own pace is why it manages to squeeze itself into the db. And it's far too late to gatekeep interactive movies, but at least we only add those that have characteristics of visual novels. And i'm sure the game has its own fans, especially those that are obsessed with the shock endings.
#767 by usagi
2021-05-24 at 11:06
< report >
link not only does not allow you to stop the movie (at least I didn't find a button that could do that), but it plays major parts without any subtitles. These two end up being deal-breakers for me, which is why I would consider it an interactive movie that occasionally allows you to make choices, instead of a visual novel.
1) there are built-in subtitles in eng translated version for each voiced and/or written line (I can't post link here to eng version though since it would be against rules about piracy - and original translation patch was removed from ulmf forum - where it first appeared - for some reason.. probably due to promoting lolicon content?)
2) majority of movies in game are hentai and ecchi scenes - which are played multiple times anyway due to game's dating sim structure (there are calendar and scripted events which will be repeated many times as you grind affection points) - so pause is not that neccessary since you will see them again even if you missed something first time
3) there are enough still images too - it's far from pure interactive movieLast modified on 2021-05-24 at 11:13
#768 by butterflygrrl
2021-05-24 at 13:37
< report >iirc it's mostly just using blinking, lipflap, and angles to make standard sprites look more like they're an anime. there certainly is real animation but the bulk of the game wasn't, as best as I recall. i kind of wondered why more people didn't try that.
#769 by iwannarategames
2021-05-30 at 23:03
< report >#766 then why was Plumbers Don't Wear Ties deleted then? Isn't it basically the same?
#770 by ezezin
2021-05-31 at 00:38
< report >Is there a line of what visual novels are accepted in the db or is it allowed to add every vn that exists out there no mater their quality? And these are just from a quick search on itch.io.

Edit: I'm talking about quality only, not those games that are so borderline that it's hard to tell if they are vn or not.
Edit 2: Those Vns are not in the db yet.Last modified on 2021-05-31 at 01:03
#771 by iwannarategames
2021-05-31 at 00:58
< report >>Is there a line of what visual novels are accepted in the db or is ok to add every vn that exists out there no mater it's quality?

If we added Doki Doki Literature Club!, then we can add all of that stuff.Last modified on 2021-05-31 at 02:24
#772 by asgryffynn
2021-05-31 at 17:55
< report >Alright, so somehow Fate Extella and Extella Link count as VNs but Conception does not? Does anyone here realize that the story gameplay ration in Conception II at least is virtually identical to the Extra games?

If Extra is in, why can't we include this one.

I'm STRONGLY inclined to start working on its addition at this point, but I don't know if everyone here is just going to dogpile on me for this.

I mean, even people both in Fuwanovel and the game's discussion page are questioning its presence.Last modified on 2021-05-31 at 18:06
#773 by beliar
2021-05-31 at 21:05
< report >
then why was Plumbers Don't Wear Ties deleted then? Isn't it basically the same?
Have you even seen a playthrough of PDWT? It's a pure interactive movie - there is no text to read, you only watch poorly done powerpoint presentation, occasionally interspersed with choices. It's just like any other FMV title of the bygone era, but even among FMV titles, it's a shitty one.

s there a line of what visual novels are accepted in the db or is it allowed to add every vn that exists out there no mater their quality?
Crappiness factor is not taken into consideration as an inclusion criterion :-) So yes, if we have something like this in the db The Rutabega, anything goes.

so somehow Fate Extella and Extella Link count as VNs
I'm surprised some people just continue to quote F/Extella as an objectionable title, when it's pretty much 50/50 reading to gameplay ratio, and the reading portions have loads of narration to satisfy the hybrid inclusion criterion.

but Conception does not
Well, I did have an admittedly very cursory look at the Conception II LP. At first the game did look pretty VN-like, but I quickly realized the Let's Player has edited out the boring stuff, like the battles. The second LP I turned on, had everything included, and it looks much more RPG-like.

I mean, Extella follows a very clear structure: half an hour of reading followed by half an hour of battling. Rinse repeat. Conception seems to have a lot of moving parts: dialogues, battles, dating sim (conversations with girls, where you seem to be able to level them up), leveling up facilities. There are lots of stats for every character. It doesn't seem like you are reading the book, but rather you are definitely playing a game. Currently it absolutely doesn't fit our guidelines.

And I don't particularly agree with Kiru, regarding his post in another thread that we should relax the "requires narration" requirement. It would open the door to a shit-load of very chatty RPGs and adventure games, that despite lots of reading would still be primarily games. Without narration the constant jokes about Planescape Torment and The Longest Journey wouldn't be jokes anymore, they would become reality.
#774 by iwannarategames
2021-05-31 at 23:01
< report >Planescape Torment *does* have narration though. The reason why I attacked School Days for not using ADV/NVL is because if we allow games that don't use those kind of presentations, then there's no reason not to allow Planescape Torment since the game otherwise leans too much towards story rather than gameplay.Last modified on 2021-05-31 at 23:03
#775 by iwannarategames
2021-05-31 at 23:46
< report >Turboroko: Path to Passion Fever is an RPG that constantly interrupts the story and there is only narration in the first scene. The game is less than 10 minutes long and only has one ending, so you guys can check it out yourself since there doesn't seem to be any footage of it online.