Game inclusion in the DB

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#801 by ezezin
2021-07-09 at 08:41
< report >About this:
When doing the estimate for "a third of the game" for the 'Brief NVL' tag would you be looking for a third of the text amount is NVL or a third of the "textboxes"? I assume it is the former and tagged it with both NVL and ADV, as it probably does around half of the story in NVL (if not more), but if you were to just count the amount of text advances that constitute NVL compared to ADV, I imagine it would only apply as brief.

I also noticed that the expansion is listed in the 'Shops' portion of the page without any other info - as it looks right now you'd think the upper url is just a cheaper version of the main game. Not sure if that's usually handled differently.
You should ask here.

And about this:
I'm practically brand new to creating new pages - which also includes the general treatment of them as well.
You can check this looooooong and useful discussion about adding and deleting visual novels (yes, that's how this thread started) and the rules (d15 is useful too).Last modified on 2021-07-09 at 08:51
#802 by historyeraser
2021-07-09 at 09:07
< report >@Xiandora

If you feel confident enough to add something, then you only need to justify it if someone suggests deleting it.
You can check this looooooong and useful discussion about adding and deleting visual novels
This is a really great thread because there's tons of insight about what makes something a VN.

Also, I really love the parts where people argue and insult eachother and generally say tons of lulzy shit. I laughed my ass off so hard when I first read this thread, I decided I was gonna make an account then and there.Last modified on 2021-07-09 at 09:08
#803 by xiandora
2021-07-09 at 18:20
< report >
You should ask here.
Hmm, will do.
You can check this looooooong and useful discussion about adding and deleting visual novels (yes, that's how this thread started) and the rules (d15 is useful too).
Well, I did skim through the first and last page at the time of my initial post to get a feel for the topic. Unfortunately I don't really have the energy or motivation to read through the whole thread - tl;dr debilitating depression, the only "commital" things I get to do are mostly based on whims or interest.

I did read/skim through most of the rules before posting - reading the most relevant portions more carefully.
@Xiandora

If you feel confident enough to add something, then you only need to justify it if someone suggests deleting it.
You can check this looooooong and useful discussion about adding and deleting visual novels
This is a really great thread because there's tons of insight about what makes something a VN.
I'll keep that in mind. Is there an automated notification before pages you created are actually deleted, or do you need to keep an eye on the "candidates" thread?
Also, I really love the parts where people argue and insult eachother and generally say tons of lulzy shit. I laughed my ass off so hard when I first read this thread, I decided I was gonna make an account then and there.
I can imagine that happening - people tend to get heated about things that are "dear" to them. Anything that isn't clearly defined and up to individual evaluation also tends to spark "conflict" (I say conflict very loosely here). Myself, I normally enjoy discussing subjects relevant to my interests, but I rarely get to do so apart from specific exceptions ever since my current depression started. I created my account around the time I started actively reading VNs - which is ironically around the same time I noticed the depression - mostly to keep track of the things I read/played, a lesson I learned to take care of sooner rather than later from my anime watching+MAL (Let's just say it took a few years of knowing of MAL before I made one).
#804 by historyeraser
2021-07-09 at 23:40
< report >Yes, you get a notification if something is deleted.Last modified on 2021-07-09 at 23:42
#805 by historyeraser
2021-07-10 at 05:45
< report >This is a controversial move, but I would like to request the removal AI: The Somnium Files.

First off, this game is a straight up Portopia/YU-NO-like post 1999, which is already pretty questionable on it's own.

Beliar, i think you said earlier in this thread that you don't consider menu commands in old ADVs to be gameplay, but "apart of the story" or something to that affect. I won't argue about whether or not menu commands are gameplay or not. What I will argue is that the constant interactions the player does with the environment and characters goes far beyond mere menu commands.

The main form of interaction you do is talking to people, but instead of just selecting the "Talk" command and seeing more dialogue, you then have to point and click at the character in the background each and every single time you want to use a "Talk" command. And even after you click on a character you are given a menu of conversation topics to choose.

Now, before you try to say these count as choices, I'll have you know that in nearly every scene in the game, you need to select each and every dialog option to proceed. I have played this game myself to it's entirety and I can confirm there is only 5 optional dialog options in this 20+ hour game. 4 of these count as normal choices which lead to these mini endings that are not required for unlocking the true ending. The fifth (link) is a completely optional conversation that is less than 30 seconds long. Only 4 of these dialog options are true choices in my book. Maybe the 5th if you want to stretch the definition of choice. Pointing and clicking is also needed to do other actions as well.

Anyways despite all of this, I wouldn't reccommend deleting the page for the sequel since we haven't seen any gameplay for it yet. I wouldn't be surpised if there's changes to the game flow due to Uchikoshi not being afraid to do that in the past (See: Zero Time Dilemma).Last modified on 2021-07-10 at 10:15
#806 by historyeraser
2021-07-12 at 01:42
< report >^
Lol, looks like I made an error in my previous post. I started replaying some of the game today I realized that there isn't actually any menu commands and I was likely mistaking this for something else. AI is pure point and click.
#807 by eacil
2021-07-12 at 02:18
< report >Please someone rename this guy as iwannaremovegames.
#808 by historyeraser
2021-07-12 at 02:25
< report >I made an request. All we have to do now is wait.Last modified on 2021-07-12 at 02:28
#809 by ezezin
2021-07-12 at 08:38
< report >What do you think on this: r34892.6 Should it have it's own entry or not?
#810 by beliar
2021-07-13 at 19:48
< report >
What do you think on this: r34892.6 Should it have it's own entry or not?
From what you wrote, I don't think so. If the narration and dialogues were taken from the original game and the new route was taken from the Korean version, then it's not really a fan-remake. It's just a fan-build with a few improvements, like the Spanish voice acting. I don't see a basis for splitting it away.
#811 by asgryffynn
2021-07-21 at 15:16
< report >Given the thread doesn't seem willing to answer the Conception question, I'm asking if anyone considers the series "Kuru Kuru Princess" one despite displaying a significantly greater ratio of gameplay to writing than Conception does.

Kurukuru ◇ Princess ~Figure de Kirakira☆Koori no Angel~ and all the series.
#812 by butterflygrrl
2021-07-21 at 19:38
< report >I suspect not many people will admit to having played it. I wanted to but couldn't get very far because, as I recall, the added english sound effects made me want to stab myself in the ears.

As best as I recall there is a reasonably substantial amount of text but it's meant to be a rhythm game first, the VN hybrid element is the bonus.

Does any non-VN game site consider it a VN rather than an action/rhythm game?

Digging up old reviews I find IGN complaining about how frequently the story interrupted the action. It's definitely not a game where there's story up front and then never again. But most players do seem to consider the gameplay being the first-and-foremost part, with the story either a pleasant bonus or a frustration depending. Nobody's playing it just for that.

I'd be kind of sad to see it go but I can't mount a spirited defense either.Last modified on 2021-07-21 at 19:39
#813 by raccooncitizen
2021-07-22 at 10:44
< report >There was this announcement for DLCs:
link

For this:
link

It seems pretty obscure so I thought I'd mention it so that someone adds this info somehow before it gets overlooked.
#814 by eacil
2021-07-22 at 12:52
< report >
someone
Like... you?.
#815 by beliar
2021-07-22 at 13:38
< report >
Kurukuru ◇ Princess ~Figure de Kirakira☆Koori no Angel~ and all the series.
Yeah, I took a look at the first game in the series link, and I have a hard time justifying its presence here.
1. There is no dialogue narration, I meant narration, whatsoever, which is immediately a huge black mark.
2. Dialogues between characters are very short and don't really form a cohesive narrative.
3. The primary mission of the game is the advancement in skating. You raise the levels of various stats by completing minigames and learn various skating moves.
4. All in all, it's primarily a raising sim. Not that much different than other removed raising sims, like LLTQ.
Does anyone really object to its removal (and the whole series if the other games are similar)?Last modified on 2021-07-22 at 14:56
#816 by butterflygrrl
2021-07-22 at 14:54
< report >I still have way more objection to LLTQ being removed than I would to this. LLTQ has a branching narrative and the story is the focus, not the stats. These skating games, the narrative is not the focus.

Pretty much the only thing I can argue is:

>don't really form a cohesive narrative.

I don't think that's 100% right since there is some kind of ongoing story that develops into a romance between the protagonist and some boy named Tobias. From an otome game site:

>The romance element doesn’t start until June or so. The game starts in April. All of the girls fall for the same guy, and since they all have the same personality, there is no replay value. There is a new game plus though, so all of the clothes and accessories you bought the first time around and all money you have stays in your next save. The love interest is Tobias. He’s adorable, and starts off really quiet. The MC and him help each other grow out of their shells.

There is some kind of narrative. It's just clearly of very subordinate importance. And yeah I don't think there's any narration at any point.

Literally the only reason I'm sad to see it go is that I like having some kiddie/girly games in the database, but I can't really call it a VN.Last modified on 2021-07-22 at 14:55
#817 by historyeraser
2021-07-22 at 15:07
< report >
Literally the only reason I'm sad to see it go is that I like having some kiddie/girly games in the database
Well, there's Mean Girls: Senior Year which I actually enjoyed quite a bit. Even wrote a review of it.

Anyways Beliar, you check out that tl;dr manifesto I wrote addressed to you about deleting AI: The Somnium Files yet?Last modified on 2021-07-22 at 15:07
#818 by beliar
2021-07-22 at 15:38
< report >
Anyways Beliar, you check out that tl;dr manifesto I wrote addressed to you about deleting AI: The Somnium Files yet?
Actually, no. The reason being, you are not the first person to denounce AI as not being a VN, however I don't want to check the playthroughs out of fear of spoiling myself, and don't want to make a decision based on hearsay. In fact, I have purchased the game during the last sale, so mayhap I'll have a more informed opinion some time in the future. No hurry.
#819 by historyeraser
2021-07-22 at 15:54
< report >
however I don't want to check the playthroughs out of fear of spoiling myself
Lmao, I was the same. I bought the game and because I found out it was an Uchikoshi game, I binged the whole thing in three days to avoid spoilers. The payoff I managed for being able to experience those twists without being spoiled was orgasmic.

Despite the fact I want it off the DB, I still consider it a 10/10.
#820 by butterflygrrl
2021-07-22 at 17:25
< report >It looks like Princess Debut used to be in the DB and got deleted years ago and it has a much better claim to being a hybrid VN than the ice skating games do, even though they're built on similar engines.

It's got a proper storyline, multiple romance options, and even (second-person) narration.

Not necessarily arguing for bringing it back, just using it to help stake out the positions in terms of "what's a VN".
#821 by xiandora
2021-07-23 at 04:30
< report >
I still have way more objection to LLTQ being removed than I would to this. LLTQ has a branching narrative and the story is the focus, not the stats.
Likely would've never thought about it on my own since I never did get around to "finishing" it - I had a lot on my plate at the time so despite being interested it got put to the side and I never got around to picking it up again. I'm surprised that it was removed, while my memories of it are both dated and limited I get the feeling there was more than enough narrative and other elements needed to put it here.
I'd be interested to hear about it if someone remembers roughly how the arguments or discussions went.
#822 by asgryffynn
2021-07-23 at 06:16
< report >
It looks like Princess Debut used to be in the DB and got deleted years ago and it has a much better claim to being a hybrid VN than the ice skating games do, even though they're built on similar engines.

I mean, the reason I singled it out was because of the earlier Conception debate. Conception features far more in terms of narration and ADV romantic interactions than any game in the other series does, so I truly and genuinely believe it'd be hypocritical of the site members to remove a game from even being added in the first place and then go and try to defend the presence of a game with far less of a visual novel footprint in the spirit of... I honestly don't know at this point? Otome hegemony in mobile devices? I don't really know.

So, who's going to go ahead?

As a whole, I'm also updating the Genius entries since it's obvious it's missing the iOS entries. I am referring specifically (in this case) to the presence of galge on iOS added to the system through the Anibabe app, which works similarly to the Otomania app and allows the games to be updated in a batch.

Someone who has an iPhone wants to help me with this? It's looking increasingly dire for me to find anyone willing to work on compiling a list of galge/non otome games for mobile outside lagdroid.
#823 by historyeraser
2021-07-23 at 07:32
< report >
Conception features far more in terms of narration and ADV romantic interactions than any game in the other series does
Can you post footage of the game that features narration? I didn't see any in some let's plays of the game I saw.
#824 by eacil
2021-07-23 at 08:29
< report >About AI: The Somnium Files:

You have zero incentive to click on the environment. I did that and the content is shallow. You are lucky if you can read a joke. Most of the time it will be akin to "it's a table". It's all optional except rare times where you investigate the environment of a crime scene. Unless you have OCD like me, you will probably stop clicking on the environment when not needed because it is not rewarding. Trying to make AI looks like a typical point and click is disingenuous.

For starters, the game is in 3D but you are always on a fixed position (you can only spin). That's pretty static for a 3D game. Just saying.

Then, the only thing that matters is to click on characters to talk to them with one to four topics/answers presented on the d-pad. Basically, you will exhaust the topics at hand. That's it, you spend all the game having long conversations with characters interrupted by animated cut scenes and few interactions with objects from the environment. There are no back and forth between many characters, everything is linear.

Oooh, having to point on the single character on the screen before having to click on it, what a hassle of a pure point and click! And all that conversational reading, always interrupted by the damn D-pad topics and answers! I could almost pick my nose the time it took me to reach the button every time my attention was required! Imagine having to direct a conversation, even if artificially as you confess yourself! It was as interrupting as having to press A to make the next line appears! But it wasn't A, it was the D-pad! I am not used to this button!!! There are four-in-one, this is too disorienting!!!

I'll have you know that in nearly every scene in the game, you need to select each and every dialog option to proceed.
And so fucking what?? They are not choices so you can't present them as topics and non branching answers?? The fuck is that argument?? The point of the game is to have conversations!

this guy ffs
#825 by historyeraser
2021-07-23 at 10:37
< report >
It's all optional except rare times where you investigate the environment of a crime scene
No, those instances are frequent, because, y'know, it's a game about investigating a murder!? The game frequently prompts you to zoom in on the environment and use the x-ray to interact the enviroment.
There are no back and forth between many characters
Blatantly wrong. There is plenty of scenes where you have to move the cursor around to switch whatever character you need to talk to next in order to proceed.
Oooh, having to point on the single character on the screen before having to click on it, what a hassle of a pure point and click! And all that conversational reading, always interrupted by the damn D-pad topics and answers! I could almost pick my nose the time it took me to reach the button every time my attention was required! Imagine having to direct a conversation, even if artificially as you confess yourself! It was as interrupting as having to press A to make the next line appears! But it wasn't A, it was the D-pad! I am not used to this button!!! There are four-in-one, this is too disorienting!!!
Nice strawman. Aren't you against people being "caricatural" or something?
It's funny you are trying to frame this like I find the gameplay to be annoying even I literally said the game is a 10/10, which you can see if you scroll up the page just slightly. Though I guess it's easy to miss when you are so obviously red with rage it fucks up your eyesight.Last modified on 2021-07-23 at 11:05