Game inclusion in the DB

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#826 by beliar
2021-07-23 at 10:45
< report >Eacil is very much the inclusionist, and he tends to disagree with many of the game removals. It's not exclusive to you :-)
#827 by adamstan
2021-07-23 at 10:51
< report >Judging by the descriptions above I'd say, that this game (AI Somnium Files) seems to be perfect example of what Interactive Adventure Game tag is for. And that alone IMO isn't enough for its exclusion.

(But of course if for example it was driven mostly by puzzles, like lot of "western" point and clicks, where dialogues serve mostly to give clues and obtain objects needed to solve the puzzles, then by all means it should go. But this doesn't seem to be the case here)

Funny, again I caught myself "defending" the game I'm not even that much interested in. Perhaps because somewhere deep inside I fear, that one day someone would like to delete Sakura no Kisetsu or YU-NO or other early VN-adventure hybrids on the same basis ;)

And that would be a terrible loss, since I'm afraid those games wouldn't find their place in typical adventure game databases, and still "VN" seems to be closest match for them.Last modified on 2021-07-23 at 11:42
#828 by asgryffynn
2021-07-23 at 11:16
< report >
Can you post footage of the game that features narration? I didn't see any in some let's plays of the game I saw.

Give me a day or so to get back to you. Are we talking an actual narrator or does the character going into inner monologue count?
#829 by adamstan
2021-07-23 at 11:20
< report >Well, most of narration in VNs is in the form of protagonist's internal monologue - it seems to be industry standard ;)Last modified on 2021-07-23 at 11:20
#830 by historyeraser
2021-07-23 at 11:27
< report >I'm talking about actual narration. Characters just having a thought bubble/bracket doesn't count. It can be any kind. First, second, third, whatever.
#831 by ninius
2021-07-23 at 11:37
< report >There's not much inner monologue in the game because Date talks with Aiba most of the time, making his inner thoughts dialogues. There's this kind of narration link sometimes, idk if it's what was asked though. I recommend muting the video while checking :)
#832 by asgryffynn
2021-07-23 at 11:48
< report >Well, narration on Conception... pardon the verbose URL...

link
#833 by eacil
2021-07-23 at 11:51
< report >
Blatantly wrong. There is plenty of scenes where you have to move the cursor around to switch whatever character you need to talk to next in order to proceed.
Yeah, like between two characters? Big deal. And most of the time you can do them sequentially, meaning you stay on them long enough for that to not be deemed interruptive.
No, I am not talking about this ridiculous amount of interruption, I am talking about a constant need to change conversation partners between the whole cast (yk, many) spread on different accessible locations. Like, I assume, Aegis Rim. Unless you think changing scenes itself is an unwarranted interruption of the story? Like we have to be stuck in one place or something?
The game is pretty linear, static, and scripted. That's why I am really impressed on how dynamic it is. I wish typical adventure games would strip themselves of that puzzle-centric mindset and be this story-driven, with this kind of streamlined presentation.

No, those instances are frequent, because, y'know, it's a game about investigating a murder!? The game frequently prompts you to zoom in on the environment and use the x-ray to interact the enviroment.
Once again, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. The amount of time spent on investigating the environment is nothing compared to the time spent talking. Nothing.

Nice strawman.
I am showing how freaking ridiculous it is to make the selection of topics and answers enough to dismiss the game as interruptive even though it is just a button away. Coz this is pretty much your only argument. That and having to click on your partner and maybe having to click on them again with A when the cursor is already on them? Not my fault if you are made of straw.
I couldn't care less what you think of the game. How is that even relevant?Last modified on 2021-07-23 at 11:59
#834 by adamstan
2021-07-23 at 11:54
< report >
I wish typical adventure games would strip themselves of that puzzle-centric mindset and be this story-driven,

In my mind, that's the differentiating point between standard adventure game (which doesn't belong here) and a borderline-VN (which does, of course if it's text based).Last modified on 2021-07-23 at 11:58
#835 by historyeraser
2021-07-23 at 11:59
< report >
I am not framing what you said like you were annoyed or something because I don't care what you think of the game. How is that even relevant?
Never thought you cared, it just sounded like you were implying I was biased in some way against the game and that's why I was making such a big deal about it.
#836 by eacil
2021-07-23 at 12:09
< report >No, no, you just want to remove games, I know.
#837 by butterflygrrl
2021-07-30 at 01:00
< report >Doll House

Was quite surprised to see this circle listed as I thought they only made video files. All these 'games' are listed in the Video category on DLsite as far as I know, not game or novel. Are these really VNs?
#838 by historyeraser
2021-07-30 at 01:20
< report >Played the demo for Apartment. It's a normal VN with animated sex scenes.

My_Sister seems be the same although you can kinda control the flow of the sex scenes.

Hospital only has 3 lines and the demo stops. Great fuckin' game (sarcasm).

Couldn't find a demo for the last one.Last modified on 2021-07-30 at 01:27
#839 by naiohoras
2021-07-30 at 01:39
< report >yeah, I finished some of their games. don't know why they are listed as video in DLsite, but they are certainly VN.
#840 by asgryffynn
2021-07-30 at 08:30
< report >Speaking of borderline VNs, I have to ask again: if I added Conception II, would it inevitably get deleted? I still can't understand how Fate/Extra is any more Visual Novel/RPG hybrid than Conception II is when they follow exactly the same structure! Exactly the same one!

If someone tells me it's contentious but not terribly so (not more so than other known games in the database which were discussed before) I may just f****** do it. I'm not convinced this doesn't belong in here and I'm getting bored of the excuses all earlier posters mentioned, as they are also present in the actual VNs that are still a part of the DB.

edit: found another candidate. I swear that it was in the DB...

linkLast modified on 2021-08-02 at 17:17
#841 by gps
2021-08-06 at 13:11
< report >じんるいのみなさまへ is a VN, right?
Can't really tell if there's much gameplay other than walking around...
Found a page for the game on some Japanese website
Official website (I think)

Edit: IGDB says it's a VN. Should probably be added to the database.Last modified on 2021-08-08 at 11:26
#842 by moyang
2021-08-06 at 15:11
< report >@841

I found a review. According to the review, there's some 'survival' gameplay element like gathering items/food and moving to a designated position. But that gameplay is quite easy and the game's selling point is the story.

So it's a VN I guess.Last modified on 2021-08-06 at 15:12
#843 by ezezin
2021-08-06 at 15:18
< report >#841, here is a english article about the game: link
Edit: Trailer and some screenshots: link
Judging by the videos only, I would say is a VN with survival elements.Last modified on 2021-08-06 at 15:50
#844 by beliar
2021-08-06 at 20:27
< report >Judging from this link, unless the uploader cut out gameplay elements, it indeed looks like a visual novel.

P.S. Regarding Conception, this playthrough link doesn't cut out gameplay like many other playthroughs on youtube, and it ... just doesn't strike me as a hybrid VN. There is a LOT OF gameplay. I cannot say what's the ratio, as I don't have time to watch a lot of the footage, but taking a few videos from the middle of the playlist I saw like an hour of gameplay and maybe 15 mins of dialogue. The game also has zero narration, which is the main difference between it and Fate/Extellia.

Has anyone else beside Asgryffynn played the game?Last modified on 2021-08-06 at 20:42
#845 by asgryffynn
2021-08-08 at 10:12
< report >I think the reason you're seeing lots of gameplay elements is because the stretches of gameplay/dialogue span most of a video, so depending on which part of the gameplay you watch, you might get less/more gameplay.

This peculiar part is 3/4 dialogue.. The narration is also fairly sparse, but it is there. I actually posted several links before and highlighted one of them. This also has more interaction than gameplay

Compare with Extra.
#846 by historyeraser
2021-08-12 at 09:30
< report >(I posted this in the canidates for deletion thread, but it was seemingly buried under other stuff so I'll post it here as well.)

Shinseiki Evangelion: Ayanami Ikusei Keikaku: suspiciously similar to Princess Maker 1-3. As in, there's no plot past the opening scene.

link
#847 by ninius
2021-08-16 at 08:30
< report >Does link or link count as a vn?Last modified on 2021-08-16 at 08:49
#848 by eacil
2021-08-16 at 09:01
< report >I "played" them for 5 minutes but what's your problem with them? All I see is text + choices.
#849 by ninius
2021-08-16 at 09:04
< report >@eacil, you talking to me? Did I say there's a problem? I'm just making sure they're seen as vns. Should I just add games that I'm unsure about? Lol.
#850 by eacil
2021-08-16 at 09:48
< report >I don't understand why you are on the defensive like that. Those games are hardly irregular (unconventional, yes) so I was wondering if I missed something. There was obviously a problem because you were asking if they fit the db (and are unsure).