Game inclusion in the DB

Posted in

#851 by butterflygrrl
2021-09-05 at 18:13
< report >Is being able to click to advance a requirement to qualify as a VN?

Systematic Insanity is made in Visual Novel Maker and occasionally shows a tiny bit of the default interface to let you save, but it seems to be primarily a movie in VN format. You can't speed it up or slow it down, all you can do is sit and stare at it.
#852 by adamstan
2021-09-05 at 18:35
< report >So, something like the permanent auto-mode?
#853 by butterflygrrl
2021-09-05 at 19:10
< report >yep, full auto all the way through, and no controls to change autoplay speed either.Last modified on 2021-09-05 at 19:10
#854 by beliar
2021-09-05 at 19:56
< report >What controls are there? Can you pause the autoplay in order to read at your own leisure?
#855 by Ezezin
2021-09-05 at 20:56
< report >I recently "obtained" it. Here are some screenshots: intro - title screen - prologue - first animated scene (Suggestive) - dialogue (fully automated) - save menu - narration - pause menu.

Edit: Although you can pause the "game", it goes to a pause menu, it doesn't stop the auto mode. Also, it seems you can only do that in the dialogue parts; there isn't any GUI during narration or scenes.Last modified on 2021-09-05 at 21:07
#856 by beliar
2021-09-05 at 21:38
< report >
Although you can pause the "game", it goes to a pause menu, it doesn't stop the auto mode.
In that case it's just a movie that for some reason uses the game engine for playback, but whatever floats the dev's boat. There are interactive movies in the db, but in all cases they allow to at least pause the playback. If this feature is missing, I don't believe the 'game' should be here.
#857 by historyeraser
2021-09-08 at 03:28
< report >Can Boyfriend Dungeon be added?

Gameplay footage: link
#858 by otakuman007
2021-09-12 at 21:10
< report >Could Heaven Burns Red be added?
Pretty much seens like usual VN RPG hybrid.Last modified on 2021-09-12 at 21:10
#859 by historyeraser
2021-09-12 at 21:23
< report >#858

Is that game even out yet? I can't even find any footage of it on Youtube. Looking up the Japanese name gives no results either.
#860 by otakuman007
2021-09-12 at 21:35
< report >I think it's not out yet, but there is several videos:
It seems to be pretty usual VN RPG. (Story narrated in VN style + plus some 3D rendered action sequences and RPG gameplay). Also it's produced by Key and written VN veteran Maeda Jun. So I believe it could pretty much fit here.
They even specifing that as "ドラマチックRPG"Last modified on 2021-09-12 at 21:42
#861 by beliar
2021-09-14 at 19:02
< report >
Can Boyfriend Dungeon be added?
Not... sure? The few gameplay videos I've watched showed that there is some narration, however the dungeon crawling parts get pretty lengthy. Is there enough pure story to shift balance for the story/gameplay ratio? Hard to say from the videos, especially with most YTubers editing their videos.

Gonna abstain from a decision. If you have played the game and feel there is more story than gameplay in it, I won't prevent you from adding it.

Could Heaven Burns Red be added?
As it was mentioned, it's not out yet, and I'm not gonna judge the game based on promo videos.
#862 by Ileca
2021-10-18 at 20:50
< report >Did someone play Confined with Goddesses? It might qualify. I took a quick look at it but it also includes sim elements and like I don't plan on playing it with such meager content, I can't really tell with such a superficial look.
It's patreon crap but for once is 2D (and features femdom).
#863 by beliar
2021-10-18 at 21:35
< report >I have tried an early build of the game and at the time I thought it might not qualify. After the intro, the game got all sim-like and I dropped it. Could probably check again....
#864 by asgryffynn
2021-10-21 at 23:20
< report >Alright, @beliar, since you seemed to be the one most opposed to it and I've gathered all the info I could get, are you going to oppose me adding Conception II to the database?

Like, if you believe it's contentious, then we could delete it at a later time if it really doesn't fit at all, but I've played through three games in the database and seen uninterrupted playthroughs of one you mentioned as being lenient on (Boyfriend Dungeon... and no, I didn't watch YT ones. Someone at the office bought it as part of VN researching), so at this point, it'd definitely feel on the nose if you actively opposed adding this one.

Also, I may be adding Ninja Girls' sequel soon. Why are we doing such an horrid job at adding non-otome mobile VNs? There's literally an entire catalog (from Genius) we're missing that's present in Android in the DB but absent on iOS according to it, even though those titles did release on iOS.

Like who curates otome games and if so, could they be asked to keep tabs on galge as well?
#865 by historyeraser
2021-10-22 at 00:48
< report >Boyfriend Dungeon is definitely not a VN. The story to gameplay ratio is insufficient for inclusion.
#866 by beliar
2021-10-22 at 18:36
< report >@864: It's not like I'm entirely opposed to the inclusion, but from the few videos I saw it did appear contentious to me. I don't remember if anyone else commented on the game, as you appear to be the main person pushing for its inclusion.

I fear it might not be VN enough and become yet another game some people will point at and say: "Look at vndb, how inconsistent they are! They even allow games like this!" :-) And removing games is harder than adding them, as the games incur releases, characters, reviews and all the associated baggage...

That said, if you really feel it fits our guidelines, go ahead and add it. Maybe that will finally prompt some people to come and provide evidence why it should or shouldn't belong here.

Like who curates otome games
Curates??? What do you think this is? Steam? Users are responsible for adding games, and the sorry state of mobile games only shows that very few people care about them and bother adding them to the db.
#867 by Ezezin
2021-10-22 at 19:17
< report >Wait, reviews from deleted entries should be deleted too?
#868 by beliar
2021-10-22 at 19:39
< report >Well, not as such, no. I meant that games accrue baggage after staying in the db for some time, and deleting the games wastes user effort if they added characters, screenshots, or wrote reviews. Moreover, no one's gonna see reviews from deleted games anyway, so...
#869 by butterflygrrl
2021-10-22 at 20:06
< report >@864 adding games is a haphazard thing, there's a ton of sources that I add stuff from sporadically just because I felt like looking at what had come out one day. clearly nobody's systematically monitoring them to add titles.
#870 by Ileca
2021-10-22 at 20:52
< report >I also think that adding mobile releases and even console ones is much harder because of poor information not being standardized the same as pc games. If I am not wrong, the release date on mobile stores is updated alongside updates, making it very costly to find it back.
Every time I tried to add old mobage, it was a pain in the ass. Let's not even start talking about mobage released outside of the apple/google's ecosphere.
#871 by beliar
2021-10-22 at 21:04
< report >Yeah, it's usually pretty hard to find comprehensive information for mobages, as their devs don't seem to believe in changelogs. I usually had to scroll through old tweets in order to find out when the game was updated with this or that language.

There are some pages where you can check the dates when the build was updated (link), but they do not log what was updated. Not to mention that v1.0 sometimes does not mean 'completed game'.

It makes updating mobages... frustrating.
#872 by Ileca
2021-10-22 at 21:12
< report >I opened this thread > t11340 talking about appbrain and appannie but I came to the conclusion that they can't be trusted. They have different data for the same stuff, making you wonder how they fetch it. I suspect that they manually crawl the API regularly, and update accordingly, meaning that if the game was released the 8, but they crawl the 9, they will mark the change as having happened the 9. And like you said 1.0 sometimes doesn't match the actual release date but more some kind of internal release before the public release, making it impossible to know for sure what is the god damn release date! This is maddening.
It's pretty much the same for consoles or even worse because of no release date or info about the various editions, or nothing is centralized, etc.
#873 by asgryffynn
2021-10-22 at 23:36
< report >@872 Third party analytics sites often rely on Wikipedia style contributions for their splash pages (I wasn't aware we were similar in this regard). That's why the data is inconsistent. Also, major sites may stop reporting on apps that don't get frequent updates.

@866 it's not like we don't have already a significant amount of hybrids here. Also, I'm not sure if others have actually, but I DID play the thing until the last three hours or so (it's around 35 hours) and there's no way around the dialog, especially when I had already played Eiyuu Senki and Fate/Extra and found there was little difference besides more frequent introspection/narration/internal monologue in the last one (CII does have it, but because the protagonist is... blunt, to say the least, you don't get to hear it until the odd moments where he's actually left on his own).

Since apparently mobile games are giving everyone a headache, I'm going to jump in starting next month (hopefully) and start adding the backlog of Genius galge/the new Ninja Girls and if it hasn't been added already, SK Reflections, to the list...

It does make me wonder how otoge are, however, listed almost flawlessly. Clearly those contributors do have a significant love for those games.
#874 by Ileca
2021-10-23 at 00:45
< report >Yes, otoge fans are dedicated and a lot of their games are on mobile because gurls like to use their phone. On the other hand, there is no reason to focus on inferior mobage over superior and normal desktop experience for everything else.
Yes, do that, it sounds a much more useful use of your time than trying to add Conception II to the db. :3
#875 by asgryffynn
2021-10-23 at 04:31
< report >#874 CII is getting its page first, but I've obviously got to gather all the data (I only have my Play Time for comparison), VAs, character traits, et al... Same goes for MNG 2... whereas the Genius ones are literally just adding an entry to the existing releases...

And SKR is very bare bones so it will probably take a considerably lesser amount of effort. I like to get the cumbersome stuff out of the way first, and hybrids are the most cumbersome (ask whoever assembled the Sakura Wars entries).