Game inclusion in the DB

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#26 by gabezhul
2016-02-06 at 20:23
@24: Then you must have done something wrong, as it is introduced fairly early on and before you would have any reason to grind. Also, what do you even mean by grinding?

AT1 is so infamously easy that, once you make some decent crystals, character levels become completely irrelevant and you can roflstomp your way to the final boss without ever having to stop to level-grind. The only time I was ever grinding in that game was for the costume comments (you need to fight a certain number of battles with the girls wearing their latest costume to unlock a talk topic on each cosmosphere-tier). Though, I suppose you can be grinding for CP (the currency which is used in certain checks during the cosmosphere sections), but normal random encounters usually provided enough of those for me as well.
#27 by rbashal
2016-02-06 at 20:31
^ In a JRPG, more than 5 battles per hour is grind in my eyes.
I only tried it because it was listed here, and quit in about 30 minutes.Last modified on 2016-02-06 at 20:36
#28 by jazz957
2016-02-06 at 20:45
Then you have a very strange idea of what a grind is. :P
#29 by gabezhul
2016-02-06 at 20:55
#27: 5 battles per HOUR? Are you serious? In my experience 5 battles per hour is a below average *random-encounter rate* in most JRPGs. Hell, I just played Bunny Black 2 a week ago, and there the actual grind was more about 30 battles per hour, +/-10. -.-'

I fact, I am trying to think of a single JRPG I played (and I played a few) that had a less than 5 battle per hour rate (if we don't count safe areas like towns, roads or casinos) and I'm coming up blank.
#30 by pabloc
2016-02-06 at 21:17
Update regarding Magical Diary: Horse Hall.
I have just played through the demo and it's pretty obvious that the game should stay. It fulfills the second clause and uses consistent narration throughout the story sequences.
In my opinion it's a textbook example of a hybrid game.
Weird, I remembered it differently. Maybe I confused it with something else? It was ages ago.
In a JRPG, more than 5 battles per hour is grind in my eyes.
... Are there any RPGs like that (save for a few totally story-oriented titles, like Planescape Torment)?
#31 by jazz957
2016-02-06 at 21:26
Well Magical Diary and Long Live the Queen are both from Hanako Games, so maybe that's what confused you?
#32 by olson6897
2016-02-06 at 21:59
I wonder if you can count Persona 4 Arena and Persona 4 Arena Ultimax as visual novels. They are fighting games, but BlazBlue is also a fighting game and I found it in vndb database. There is also Persona 4: Dancing All Night, where you dance instead of fighting, but story mode looks like the same as in BB and P4A series.
#33 by warfoki
2016-02-07 at 02:20
^And that is the exact reason why we need to purge some of them, instead of adding even more.
#34 by ginseigou
2016-02-07 at 03:57
Why do we keep non-vns because of relations again?Last modified on 2016-02-07 at 04:25
#35 by soulless-one
2016-02-07 at 04:43
^ Consider the following situation: There is a game trilogy, but only the first and the last games are VNs. You want to express that the third game is the "sequel of the sequel" of the first game. But there is no such relation, so you must use an intermediary entry.
Also, it's nice to see whether there is related media, like related anime.Last modified on 2016-02-07 at 04:46
#36 by ginseigou
2016-02-07 at 04:50
I think it could be mentioned in a description and that's all
#37 by dk382
2016-02-07 at 04:51
Which games in our DB are non-VNs but in for relations reasons?
#38 by ginseigou
2016-02-07 at 04:55
Long Live The Queen I guess (?) and some others mentioned in this thread.
#39 by soulless-one
2016-02-07 at 04:57
It does not have any relations though...
#40 by jazz957
2016-02-07 at 04:57
No? It has no relations.
#41 by ginseigou
2016-02-07 at 04:59
Related to the same developer of Magical Diary: Horse Hall.Last modified on 2016-02-07 at 05:00
#42 by jazz957
2016-02-07 at 05:01
So? We have plenty of VN devs that made non-VNs and we don't add them.
#43 by ginseigou
2016-02-07 at 05:03
Then I don't know why it's still keptLast modified on 2016-02-07 at 05:09
#44 by jazz957
2016-02-07 at 05:04
t7442.22Last modified on 2016-02-07 at 05:05
#45 by rbashal
2016-02-07 at 06:31
@28 @29
I find JRPG style battle systems distasteful. But I could tolerate some small amount of grind if the game is a VN. But like I said, there was no end in sight.

@30
... Are there any RPGs like that (save for a few totally story-oriented titles, like Planescape Torment)?
RPGs? Absolutely. I think you meant JRPGs, though. And yes. I can think of two that kind of fit.
#46 by soulless-one
2016-02-07 at 06:48
I can think of two that kind of fit.
You got me curious.
#47 by overmage
2016-02-07 at 07:03
@45

if 5 battles an hour means no end in sight you must have the attention span of a flea
#48 by dk382
2016-02-07 at 07:06
Incidentally, I think Planescape Torment would now technically fit into our inclusion criteria. Well, the only thing it's missing is VN-style sprites.

... please don't add it.Last modified on 2016-02-07 at 07:06
#49 by jazz957
2016-02-07 at 07:12
I need to play Planescape one day. But yeah, definitely not a VN.
#50 by gabezhul
2016-02-07 at 07:35
Incidentally, I think Planescape Torment would now technically fit into our inclusion criteria. Well, the only thing it's missing is VN-style sprites.

... please don't add it.
You actually bring up a good point. PS:T is a plot-focused game using dialog and narration to tell its story, and it would indeed qualify the current criteria, except it's *obviously* not a visual novel and anyone with working eyes can tell that.

So, the question is; what disqualifies it? The lack of NVL/ADV presentation? There are obvious VNs in the DB that lack those. The lack of sprites? Again, there are visual novels that lack any kind of sprites and still qualify. The lack of segregation between story and gameplay? The way it adheres to the style of other WRPGs of the era while lacking anything linking it to Visual Novels? All of the above?

These are actually important questions, as they point out that no matter how much we try to tweak the rules, in the end the final decision will always be up to the staff because there are just so many variables and overlaps that simple heuristics just don't get the job done. I would like to remind you that there was a time in the distant past when we had this blind faith in the userbase, thinking that common sense was enough to help people differentiate between VNs and games. We were wrong. In light of that, I find it quite ironic that at the end of the day our final line of defense against the torrent of rule-skirting titles still remains "Well, that's obviously not a VN, denied." Sometimes the easiest way to deal with complicated things is to just wing it, though it's admittedly a bit unsatisfying.Last modified on 2016-02-07 at 07:53

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