Game inclusion in the DB

Posted in

#776 by trickzzter
2021-06-01 at 03:50
< report >#774 There is no gameplay in School Days, so it doesn't have to have any narration to be included in DB.
#777 by historyeraser
2021-06-01 at 03:52
< report >I didn't mention School Days not having narration though. I was talking about Planescape Torment having it.
#778 by beliar
2021-06-03 at 18:56
< report >
Turboroko: Path to Passion Fever is an RPG that constantly interrupts the story and there is only narration in the first scene.
Well, I wouldn't even call it an RPG, unless jRPG stands for joke-RPG ;-) And the text in the beginning isn't even narration - it's a soliloquy. The only real line of narration happens immediately after every battle.

Frankly, I'm not even sure what genre I would consider this game, as the dev saw fit to intersperse the narrative with joke battles for no good reason. Considering it's like 5 minutes long and has five battles, it probably shouldn't be here.
#779 by stealthswor
2021-06-05 at 18:10
< report >link

Should this get added? I'm not sure there isn't much infomation
#780 by butterflygrrl
2021-06-05 at 18:39
< report >given that it's not out yet and doesn't even have a solid release window, why not wait and look again later?
#781 by Ninius
2021-06-06 at 19:12
< report >Does this link count as a VN? Its story is ADV presented dialogue with A LOT (like 50-100?) of consecutive choices that affect the outcome of the kingdom's politics. The protagonist comments between every choice. There's no RPG movement or anything. Just pure dialogue and million choices.Last modified on 2021-06-06 at 19:15
#782 by historyeraser
2021-06-11 at 05:49
< report >I saw a video of Buddy Mission Bond and it appears to be a pure adventure game with only dialogue.


What do you guys think?
#783 by asgryffynn
2021-06-16 at 09:51
< report >
Well, I did have an admittedly very cursory look at the Conception II LP. At first the game did look pretty VN-like, but I quickly realized the Let's Player has edited out the boring stuff, like the battles. The second LP I turned on, had everything included, and it looks much more RPG-like.

Wait, which one did you see?

Here's a link to the one I watched. I simply scrubbed the video to see when the characters entered the dungeon... and when they left and the minigames involved.

Then I went in and checked an even older title: Fate/Extra

I truly do NOT see it. The games have similar play/read ratios. Arguably, at least to some extent, Extra has less ADV dialogue off map (it also has a non combat map, whereas Conception's only "non-dungeon" gameplay involves the creation of Star Children, which is a very fast and simplistic process no different to the "Alteration of the Soul" in Fate Extra)... and the dating sim mechanics, which are not something that ought to disqualify a candidate, given the place Sakura Wars has here...

I mean, Extella follows a very clear structure: half an hour of reading followed by half an hour of battling. Rinse repeat. Conception seems to have a lot of moving parts: dialogues, battles, dating sim (conversations with girls, where you seem to be able to level them up), leveling up facilities. There are lots of stats for every character. It doesn't seem like you are reading the book, but rather you are definitely playing a game. Currently it absolutely doesn't fit our guidelines.

Conception has a very clearly defined structure: Mandatory reading>dating sequence (counts as reading)>Star Children creation>Dungeon>Repeat.

I watched around two hours of each one: Fate/Extra packs more text per screen (thanks NVL) but half of that happens on the map rather than against a CG backdrop. Conversely, if you're going to include these, then map text sequences from Conception also count. But as a former (and regretful) owner of the game, I honestly cannot remember staying more time in the dungeon than in the laboratory reading up on the story or dating the girls (which should be regarded as part of the VN dating dynamic, as using affection levels is not exclusive to non VN dating sims)

I mean, are we forgeting levels also influence servant statistics and interactions? Under the same metric, Extra is just an RPG with lengthy conversations!

It gets worse when you look at another title in the DB: Ar Nosurge

And I don't particularly agree with Kiru, regarding his post in another thread that we should relax the "requires narration" requirement. It would open the door to a shit-load of very chatty RPGs and adventure games, that despite lots of reading would still be primarily games. Without narration the constant jokes about Planescape Torment and The Longest Journey wouldn't be jokes anymore, they would become reality.

Neither do I, but this game has narration... or at least as much Narration as Ar Nosurge does. There's also other Spike games in the DB like Imagine/KuruKuru Princess that are even described by developers as being anything but a visual novel, yet they made it here for some bizarre reason, even though those are more game than novel.

I strongly urge you to watch some of the more questionable titles IN the DB and then watch a Conception II walkthrough till at least part 8 to get a bead on just how much happens through dialogue (literally everything) and how little other mechanics play (dungeon crawling and SC creation), because I genuinely cannot logically wrap my damned head around the notion that Fate/Extra and its ilk (Ar Nosurge, the Spike Imagine games, Sakura Wars) entered the DB, whereas CII did not. It's honestly extremely baffling and smack of a double standard (that there are no officially released romance VNs for dudes on the Vita unless you hack it or are Japanese).Last modified on 2021-06-16 at 09:58
#784 by butterflygrrl
2021-06-19 at 23:09
< report >Otome Senki

Alicesoft game, currently listed. The linked vndbreview in the description says it has near-zero story after the prologue. This wiki entry describing the game also says it has very little story: link

Should this qualify as a VN or is it just an RPG?
#785 by historyeraser
2021-06-24 at 01:32
< report >Moonlight Syndrome

The game's screenshots are very misleading. While the game does use some CG's with text to tell it's story, the game's various conversations (which have no narration) are primarily shown using typical 2D adventure game presentation. Some CG's even have dialogue using voice acting only with no text.

#786 by Ninius
2021-06-27 at 14:42
< report >Soon I'll just add link if Beliar isn't going to stop me by saying "no, Ninius, it's not a vn, you dumdum".
#787 by beliar
2021-06-27 at 16:31
< report >Ninius, feel free to add it, you dumdum :-P
#788 by historyeraser
2021-06-27 at 18:59
< report >Do you think Moonlight Syndrome should be deleted Beliar?
#789 by beliar
2021-06-27 at 20:03
< report >I am leaning towards deletion. I seems to be somewhat an experimental game (not a surprise where Suda51 was involved) that combines multiple genres (adventure, interactive movie, and even VN elements). However, the game has no narration and a large amount of voice-only scenes. Combine that with adventure elements, where you walk and talk with characters, and it doesn't seem to play much like a visual novel. Imho, it has much more in common with something like Telltale Games, which also combined multiple gameplay elements.

Has anyone else played it? What do you think?
#790 by historyeraser
2021-06-27 at 20:07
< report >The fan translation's not finished. I doubt anyone on this thread has played it since it only has 6 votes.Last modified on 2021-06-27 at 20:07
#791 by desann
2021-07-01 at 16:22
< report >Scarlet Nexus - looks like another JRPG for me, should it really be here?
#792 by beliar
2021-07-01 at 16:46
< report >
Scarlet Nexus - looks like another JRPG for me, should it really be here?
Must have been good drugs... :-P
#793 by historyeraser
2021-07-02 at 22:33
< report >This might sound like a weird suggestion at face value, but would it be a good idea to add Darnell Plays With Fire to the DB?

The site refers to this as a "movie" but you need to click to advance the text to see the next piece of dialogue like in a VN (that also uses floating textboxes) but I'm not completely sure myself if the screens are VN like so I would like a second opinion before posting.
#794 by Ileca
2021-07-02 at 23:48
< report >It doesn't have gameplay, you click to get the next bubble. It's one minute long, it's garbage, but it qualifies. However, this is clearly not a "good idea". If you are this bored, you can add doujinge from Freem!, you know.
#795 by historyeraser
2021-07-02 at 23:54
< report >
If you are this bored, you can add doujinge from Freem!, you know.
But muh nostalgia!
#796 by xiandora
2021-07-09 at 04:09
< report >Didn't think it warranted it's own thread, so I decided this was the most appropriate thread;
I just finished adding Maou no Harem wa Boukenshamachi nite, their developer and the few other related entries that are currently there. The edit history is somewhat disorganized and sloppy due to this being my first attempt at anything other than editing existing entries, and I had to go around making extra edits to fix certain things (such as which of the character entries to assign "Instance of"). I'll add more info to the existing pages once I have finished the game and thus feel more comfortable on trait assignment and spoiler status on them. At the moment the only character page is extremely basic at best.
I'll also get around to adding more tags. On that note, when doing the estimate for "a third of the game" for the 'Brief NVL' tag would you be looking for a third of the text amount is NVL or a third of the "textboxes"? I assume it is the former and tagged it with both NVL and ADV, as it probably does around half of the story in NVL (if not more), but if you were to just count the amount of text advances that constitute NVL compared to ADV, I imagine it would only apply as brief.
I also noticed that the expansion is listed in the 'Shops' portion of the page without any other info - as it looks right now you'd think the upper url is just a cheaper version of the main game. Not sure if that's usually handled differently.

I assume any people that might've normally added this game to VNDB made the call that is didn't meet the "VN vs game" ratio, as I was surprised I didn't find it on here after playing through (probably) more than half of it. The actual ratio will obviously differ depending on how efficiently you get through the gameplay portions and how quickly you go through the VN sections, but from what I've seen thus far it should easily meet the 50% mark for VN sections, and I imagine that ratio is just going to increase since the game has been increasingly in "VN mode" the further into the story I get.
It'd be easy to think it doesn't qualify at a glance, since once you're past the opening sequences the earlygame is largely gameplay focused with brief VN sections for milestones and ero scenes. I don't remember exactly when the major shift came - though my save times could give a better number if that was necessary - but it essentially gave you "access" to initiating the major plot after you hit a certain breakpoint. Past that part I've been doing almost no gameplay and hitting my first "proper" benchmark that gave me access to furthering the gameplay cycle just before I finished for the day.

And while I remember it, it has an English release planned by Kagura Games, but it is still in TBA status after at least 6 months. I'll add that release too, I assume? It has a steam page if anyone's interested.

Another thing that I thought I'd ask about - 'orange girl' is mentioned both on the developers ci-en site and shown at game launch (and in the first game image on dlsite), but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere what 'orange girl' *actually* did. I assume it was art, but that's just a wild guess. Unless I can confirm anything, I assume I don't bother creating an entry for them? They have their own dlsite creator page, but that didn't tell me much.

Finally, it's very possible I butchered some romaji. I was mostly working off relatable entries on here or anidb for anything I was uncertain of, and used my gut feeling and/or experience for anything I couldn't find as I didn't manage to find much of use on the linked pages in the guidelines for the specific stuff I was looking for (not that I spent more than 5 minutes looking, though).

Thoughts?Last modified on 2021-07-09 at 04:20
#797 by historyeraser
2021-07-09 at 05:24
< report >
I assume any people that might've normally added this game to VNDB made the call that is didn't meet the "VN vs game" ratio, as I was surprised I didn't find it on here after playing through (probably) more than half of it.
People need to stop saying stuff like this. I'm not really talking about this particular situation specifically, but I mean in general.

Just because we might not have a game, that doesn't mean that we decided it does not qualify. We can't check out literally every game in existence, y'know? You can check if we have deleted a game by going to the "Add Visual Novel" page and typing in what you're looking for, and checking if there was a deleted page.
#798 by xiandora
2021-07-09 at 07:14
< report >I assume there wasn't a deleted entry for it when I added this one, as I didn't see one.
More importantly, I didn't elaborate enough on that statement - I was surprised I didn't see it here despite how seemingly popular it is - reviews and a few forums I've been to also suggests that extends at least somewhat into the western audience. I wouldn't be surprised about the majority of the stuff I see not being on vndb, especially if it isn't primarily a VN. This was just one of the first times I've been surprised at something not being on here (that wasn't new).

Also, my statement about the "ratio" was mostly because it'd be easy to make that call if you don't play far enough into the game, so it just felt like a reasonable conclusion. I was not aware of how (seemingly) common my statement is. If I offended anyone, I apologize.
#799 by historyeraser
2021-07-09 at 08:25
< report >The point of this thread is to ask if something is ok to add before you add it, not for justifying whatever additions you make after the fact.

Also, I know basically nothing about that game so I'm not gonna comment on it specifically.Last modified on 2021-07-09 at 08:26
#800 by xiandora
2021-07-09 at 08:39
< report >Yeah, that wasn't really the reason I commented here, since I deemed it more than eligable - as I mentioned this just looked like the most appropriate thread, specifically for the general things I wanted to talk/ask about, but maybe creating a new thread would've been preferred? I don't know what the general consensus is here, but in most places I've been since forums started being reasonably moderated they prefer you use existing threads over starting new ones as long as what you're bringing up is somewhat on-topic - my most active forum days date back more than 10 years. But I digress.

The largest reason I brought it up in the first place was just to make sure that it doesn't seem like some willy-nilly add that probably doesn't meet the criteria, since posting would bring immediate attention to it. As I mentioned before, I'm practically brand new to creating new pages - which also includes the general treatment of them as well. So, largely going in blind I thought it appropriate to cover anything that might be relevant.
And just to make sure that doesn't rub someone the wrong way, I'm not saying I'm not willing to do some research, but for something like the general opinion of a community, you'd generally have to comb through a large amount of threads to get a good feel for things.