Tag mods policy discussion and recruitment

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#1 by immlff
2016-03-26 at 19:46
As some of you may have noticed by now, Tag and Trait systems are maintained rather sporadically nowadays. It's not even something unexpected, everyone can have a period in life when they are just too busy, or lost motivation/interest.
So I've asked Yorhel about changing his policy and assigning more than one main tag mod at a time, and he agreed. We also agreed that I would make this thread to find out which of you want to get involved and to discuss related issues.

Warfoki, the intention is to get additional tag mods rather than replace you. So you will retain your mod rights, unless you yourself want to step down. If you have any comments or objections, feel free to voice them.

The idea behind this change is that tag mods would fix various small issues on their own but only do major changes after discussing it with others. Here is a draft of what would be considered minor or major:
-- adjusting description, adding/removing aliases, swapping alias with main name - minor, mods can rely on their own judgment;
-- approving and denying tags/traits in the queue, moving tag a bit (one or two levels) within the same branch - average, can be done based on own discretion but mods are encouraged to discuss everything they are not sure about;
-- deleting or merging tags that were already in use, making significant changes to the tag structure - major, should be discussed first;
I've showed it to Yorhel and he said that it seems fine, but things may get changed.

Now, moving to the nominations, besides the current db mods I wanted to also ask Takata if he is willing to be a tag mod. He was fairly involved in the related discussions in the past and his judgment of those issues looked good to me.

One note regarding the tag mod position, it would be very helpful and convenient if future mods could frequent #vndb IRC channel at irc.synirc.net. Being in IRC greatly simplifies the communication and coordination. It would allow mods to quickly discuss issues like tag approvals and various small changes.
This is not a requirement however, at least not presently.

Note: For now focus on discussing the policy change and possible issues it could bring.
#2 by minah
2016-03-27 at 08:57
I'm not interested myself, but I'm sure having another mod to make minor typo fixes & such would be helpful without causing any problems.
#3 by dk382
2016-03-27 at 09:03
I honestly don't think I can take on too much additional responsibility right now. Takata seems to be level headed and to have a solid grasp on the traits, so I'd support his ascension to modship.
#4 by takata
2016-03-27 at 11:12
One difficulty of being a mod is that you have to mentally limit the weight of your own opinions when deciding what action to actually take. ...or at least that's what I felt I had to do. Wonder if politicians feel something like that...

Another is that you have to deal with whatever tags or traits come up, even if you find them a little... extreme. o.o Thanks (...) to vndb, I can probably take almost anything now. o.o"

Also, I find most of the stuff in the moderation queue to be of low quality or very questionable usefulness. >.< I probably wouldn't try very hard to fix anything there.

So, I'll take it, if people want me too. I'll probably go in the direction of putting the tag and trait trees on a bit of a diet. (Tags and traits allow filtering and provide a summary of info about a VN or character, nothing else.)

...remind me, how many people actually have tag/trait edit privileges? Is there anyone other than warfoki and yorhel?Last modified on 2016-03-27 at 11:41
#5 by nutellafan
2016-03-27 at 17:00
I'm interested, as long as there's some measure of flexibility and I won't have to moderate the tags and traits everyday or something.

I'd certainly like to improve descriptions and add aliases. I think it'd be worth inspecting existing tags and traits and culling the ones that aren't really useful.
#6 by warfoki
2016-03-27 at 22:30
*sigh* Yeah, I've seen this one coming.

The inactivity is not due to the lack of interest. It's due to the fact that by the time I'm done with all of the university stuff, I'm mentally tired as fuck, so the last thing I want to do is more thinking. Thanks to that the to-do list regarding tags and traits has become so long, that I hate to even look at it at this point.

Things started to slip out of control about half a year ago. This is my last tough semester at the university IF, and only IF I pass every exam. Considering that I left the hardest ones last (yay for procrastination), that's quite challenging. I will have one more semester, but that is going to be a piece of cake if I get everything done right this year. So I should be back to doing things properly around mid-late June.

That being said, the entire system can't just wait until then, so I'd be glad if I had some help. On my end, I'd vote for Takata: he has been a great help for years at this point. Without his constant help in organising things and answering issues pretty much in my place, we would've reached this point months ago. There's also this:

One difficulty of being a mod is that you have to mentally limit the weight of your own opinions when deciding what action to actually take.

Yap, that about sums it up. That's the second reason for the ever growing moderation queue. I just don't want to enforce changes on a whim, so I usually ask for opinions on the forum, but that takes time. And time is something I don't have all that much these days. Sometimes I discussed the more problematic ones with Gabe, but it would be great if we'd have another tag-trait mod to discuss them more efficiently.

As for the current backlog: the next week is spring break, so I'll deal with most of them, since I'll finally have the time to actually do it.Last modified on 2016-03-27 at 22:32
#7 by beliar
2016-04-02 at 18:15
Ehem... I have been away for a while and only now did I notice this thread. Anyway, I'm not particularly interested in being a Tag/Trait mod, however I'm sure that having another mod like Takata can only be good to the DB. Warfoki has been slipping in his schedule a bit and he needs all the help he can get in order to alleviate his burden :-)
#8 by savagetiger
2016-04-03 at 03:35
If it's ok to pop in here.
I'd be totally willing to help with the traits and tags if you think I'm qualified.
#9 by warfoki
2016-04-03 at 23:16
Right, tag queue is clear. Trait queue needs some work, but I'm going to ask about the leftover traits in the relevant thread. I've only skimmed through the tag/trait threads, so I'm sure there are a bunch of requests left there. I'll try to catch up with those.
#10 by yorhel
2016-04-05 at 09:06
Okay, promoted takata & nutellafan to tag mods, hopefully that will balance the load a bit in the future.

As usual, take it easy and feel free to ask around on the boards if you're wondering about something.

@savagetiger: Your offer is appreciated, but I think we're good for now with this change.
#11 by warfoki
2016-04-05 at 11:39
I have one advice to our two new mods: Always play Devil's advocate. The first question is NOT how a certain tag/trait can be useful, it's how it can be abused. That is why names have to be relatively clear, because not everyone will read the description.
#12 by nutellafan
2016-04-05 at 13:23
Thank you for the opportunity. I will do my best to stay consistent with the modding and maintain their quality.
#13 by immlff
2016-04-09 at 16:28
Yorhel has already promoted new mods but there are still things that need to be discussed/settled.

First, what do you think about the minor/major changes draft I posted in the first post. Did I miss anything? Any comments, suggestions, objections? Or do you agree with the approach?

Second, since it does not look like you are going to use IRC, you need some other place to discuss tag/trait issues and coordinate your efforts. Tag and trait changes are not versioned so it is very important for the mods to be on the same page. Some things can be discussed in already existing t3617 and t3314, but those threads are more for the reports and suggestions.
I would advise to create a new thread linked to all active tag mods and use it to coordinate your mod activity, ask about things and notify other mods about various related stuff.

@nutellafan
From what I can see in related threads, you seem to be rather inexperienced when it comes to dealing with tags/traits. So, until you get more familiar with the system and our approach to things, could you please avoid making any changes without asking first? Or at least notify other tag mods about changes you made.
#14 by takata
2016-04-14 at 07:34
@#13 immlff:
1. Your ideas about what changes are major enough to require further discussion seem fine.
2. I think yorhel preferred discussions to be on the boards, where everyone could see them, rather than hiding the discussion on IRC.
#15 by nutellafan
2016-04-16 at 10:32
I agree with Takata. I was also under the impression that the traits and tags discussion was to be had on their respective boards before the changes.

I will not make any changes (even ones that seem minor) without consulting the tag mods first.
#16 by warfoki
2016-04-16 at 10:49
Agree with that sentiment. That's one of the reason why I'm against discussing tags / traits on IRC as well. They are there for the public to use, so said public should not be excluded from the discussion.

The other, a lot less philosophical reason is that I hate chats. :P

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