The how to edit thread

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#301 by harleyquin
2020-09-25 at 04:42
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Just to be sure - are we talking about this San Shimai?

If the moderators are, just purge the entries. Played it years ago before I could read Japanese, and what I remember about the game shows the character entries were better off not being made because the creator is the laziest person on earth.

Only the three sisters can be considered as main characters, virtually every other "created" entry is a side character. Not to mention little to no effort was made to actually research the characters before making entries. I no longer have the game (which was in English rather than Japanese) and will not contribute to something I cannot vouch for 100%.
#302 by adamstan
2020-09-25 at 04:49
< report >Yes, you're absolutely right about main vs side characters. And the father shouldn't be mentioned as a character at all, since he's just a part of "lore", but doesn't appear in the actual game as far as I remember.

I still have the game - both EN and JP version, that's why I said I could edit those characters, but perhaps it would be indeed better to start from scratch?
#303 by savagetiger
2020-09-25 at 05:39
< report >It doesn't really matter if they're new entries or edited, it looks the same on the page. Just go ahead.
#304 by eacil
2020-09-25 at 06:07
< report >Yes, this San Shimai. The matter at hands is less about if those characters are indeed correct than what to do with such a borderline case where plenty of info is available, as it was localized, but for some reason still use cropped CG (and traits) from the freaking vndb gallery! And everybody is a main character, obviously.
It's not sustainable to wait on someone like you, Adamstan, to check and fix every entry. It's been five years since those characters were created!
It's a "is that better than nothing" situation. I believe "nothing" is better than those entries.

You say that it "might be easier than creating them from scratch" but I disagree because instead of just creating the entries as you see fit, you will have to check every trait and name, perhaps, subtract. You will also have to report characters like this father to deletion.

PS: please don't use tachie from the terrible windows version with the incredibly ugly filter. Use assets from link unless you can find better.
#305 by adamstan
2020-09-25 at 06:11
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PS: please don't use tachie from the terrible windows version with the incredibly ugly filter. Use assets from link unless you can find better.

I'm going to use original tachie extracted from PC98 version. While we're at it - perhaps it would also be good idea to replace at least some of the (ugly) Windows version screenshots with DOS/PC98 versions?

You say that it "might be easier than creating them from scratch" but I disagree because instead of just creating the entries as you see fit, you will have to check every trait and name, perhaps, subtract. You will also have to report characters like this father to deletion.

Yeah, that's true. In that case, please delete them as you see fit, and then I'll proceed with making "proper" ones.Last modified on 2020-09-25 at 06:21
#306 by eacil
2020-09-25 at 06:59
< report >Vndb being an English website, it's better to have English screenshots. Personally, I believe that if a VN has an English translation, it must have at least 5 English screenshots. Normally, you would be reverted for replacing fine screenshots but this case is peculiar as the windows remake debases the original art. So, if you ask me, yes, five screenshots from the PC98 version would be great.

In that case, please delete them
Done.
#307 by adamstan
2020-09-25 at 07:07
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Vndb being an English website, it's better to have English screenshots.
DOS English version (r1963) looks identical to Japanese PC98 one (r2261), so I can post screenshots from that one.Last modified on 2020-09-25 at 07:08
#308 by adamstan
2020-09-25 at 16:22
< report >Done - added all characters with their original tachie. Also, I took the liberty to replace most of the remake's screenshots with DOS version screenshots (still in English).
#309 by ninius
2020-09-25 at 22:16
< report >Yo look at these character lists lmfao

link

link

link

This Nojoker guy is quite a joker.Last modified on 2020-09-25 at 22:32
#310 by eacil
2020-09-28 at 09:02
< report >Do we agree that character's pictures should be removed if they are cropped from a random CG where the character appears from an unnatural angle not fit to figure on a profile, like, for example, when they are in the middle of bloody fucking?
If that's the best you can find for a profile picture, it means the character was not meant to be seen because it's probably one of those blank slate you are supposed to self-insert with. He is not physically relevant.
The FAQ says is should include the head and the shoulder. I say we should add that we should see their fucking faces, fully (unless hair), from the front, no weird angle!

Ex: Hamura Ryouta and Nogizaka Kakeru.

Sorry but looking at Tyciol's edits put me in such a bad mood.
I don't think I will have the will to check every character he has created as he has made more than a thousand of them!! On the worst OELVN I have ever seen like parodies of MLP I don't want to touch with a two meters pole. I just want to quit editing if it's like that!
His methodology is complete garbage but I have not the strength to check his data when he has put traits and cropped pictures even though the few times I did, when the traits weren't physical, some were plain wrong. Like: Paul. He apparently deduced all those traits from, I quote: "Fourthpic", which is link.
Saying "i dont have time for this pussy shit anime japan crap" apparently makes you taggable for "Cold-hearted, Cruel, Jock, Misogynist, Rude"!
Can't we programmatically delete all this shit please? Like any character he has created who wasn't subsequently edited later, if the edition wasn't a subtraction?
I thought, maybe he would get better after he learnt how to do it but I just checked his next account u110264 and the first character he has made is link and it's already a shit show. He can't get the name right and he listed "protagonist" as an alias. Oh, and I looked at the most recent character made by the same account and it's still shit > link. A character created (a name + gender for a main heroine) because Gabezhul mentioned her once in his review, on the forum! Kill his edits with fire, PLEASE. Nobody will miss them.Last modified on 2020-09-28 at 09:04
#311 by adamstan
2020-09-28 at 11:53
< report >While redoing character entries for San Shimai I also started to think about Sakura no Kisetsu. It doesn't have tyciol's garbage, but character pictures use CGs from the ingame character profiles gallery. Those CGs consist of tachie against some random background. Would it be better to replace those with raw tachie, or is there no need for that?Last modified on 2020-09-28 at 11:54
#312 by beliar
2020-09-28 at 14:45
< report >@adamstan: There is nothing wrong with the character images from Sakura no Kisetsu. In fact, for a long time it was standard to take character images directly from screenshots, so they had background behind them. I think it's still codified in the FAQ. Nowadays it doesn't really matter, but there is no reason to replace perfectly good exiting images.

@eacil: Yeah, I agree that if the character's face cannot be seen, then it probably was never designed to have an image. Your idea to remove every Tyciol's edit if someone didn't edit over it, is a good one, and I wonder if Yorhel could feasibly implement it.Last modified on 2020-09-28 at 14:47
#313 by adamstan
2020-09-28 at 15:23
< report >@312 - Thanks. I wasn't sure if there was preference for one way or the other, so I asked. I agree they are fine as they are now.
#314 by yorhel
2020-09-28 at 15:43
< report >@eacil/beliar: Sure, can delete his characters. Will look into that tomorrow.
#315 by eacil
2020-09-28 at 21:32
< report >The FAQ says that tachie with a background are preferred. I disagree with that. I am used to the way it's done now, with tachie alone, as I think that the background are distracting more than anything else. But, hey, it's just my opinion.

The point I wanted to make is that the pictures from Sakura no Kisetsu have a bigger problem: the colors. They are completely washed-out. It's a problem I sometimes see with screenshots from PC98 games. Replacing them is justified imo.
Thanks god, Yorhel, that you added a picture preview feature, because adding a new picture was a lottery and 3 times out of 4 I ended uploading something terrible even though the source was perfect.

Adamstan, if you want to fix pictures, you can fix For Season ~Meguriyuku Kisetsu no Naka de~. He took screenshots from the opening and the funniest is that he preferred to crop and downscale CG with their names on it as you can see, than crop valid tachie which were displayed for every character just after his. (Btw, the screenshots have washed-out colors too and are blurry if you look at the font.)Last modified on 2020-09-28 at 22:35
#316 by adamstan
2020-09-29 at 04:16
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Adamstan, if you want to fix pictures, you can fix For Season ~Meguriyuku Kisetsu no Naka de~. He took screenshots from the opening and the funniest is that he preferred to crop and downscale CG with their names on it as you can see, than crop valid tachie which were displayed for every character just after his. (Btw, the screenshots have washed-out colors too and are blurry if you look at the font.)

Yep, those images really are of terrible quality. Sadly, I don't have that game, so cannot easily fix them.

As for Sakura no Kisetsu - I can also replace the images with better quality versions extracted directly from game - they should at least have better colors that way ;)Last modified on 2020-09-29 at 04:47
#317 by yorhel
2020-09-29 at 07:40
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@eacil/beliar: Sure, can delete his characters. Will look into that tomorrow.
1512 character entries are now out of sight.
#318 by eacil
2020-09-29 at 21:38
< report >We can breathe now.
#319 by ninius
2020-09-29 at 22:30
< report >Did he really make that many character entries that nobody ever edited? Wow.
#320 by harleyquin
2020-09-29 at 23:15
< report >More than that. After being banned for rubbish entries, created 10+ clone accounts to continue "contributing". Absolutely unrepentant to the end.
#321< report >Post deleted.
#322< report >Post deleted.
#323 by yorhel
2020-09-30 at 08:00
< report >Can we stop trying to turn this into a game of attacking the individual and go back to focussing on improving the situation? Thanks.
#324 by wildberry
2020-10-08 at 22:56
< report >Hoping a moderator can answer this as I would like to know the "official stance" of my questions:

What's the official stance on how to add/edit arrangers and lyricists for a VN's Staff section?

I already understand that adding new staff entries of people that are only arrangers/lyricists isn't ideal, so my questions only apply to composers or otherwise existing staff entries.

Using this example: link

1) How should arrangers and lyricists be added? It makes sense that lyricists are "Staff" but my understanding is that arrangement also isn't technically musical composition, so shouldn't they be "Staff" too?

2) If a composer also arranged and/or wrote the lyrics, should the arrangement or lyrical credit be added as a separate "Staff" entry or should it be noted alongside their "Composer" credit?

Thank you.
#325 by eacil
2020-10-09 at 03:54
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If a composer also arranged and/or wrote the lyrics, should the arrangement or lyrical credit be added as a separate "Staff" entry or should it be noted alongside their "Composer" credit?
Yes, they should be separated. Think about someone who would be both a scenario writer and a producer. It makes sense to not add him as "scenarist" with a "Scenarist and producer" note, but as Scenario + Staff: producer. Every role should be treated independently. In this case, like Jazz did.

How should arrangers and lyricists be added? It makes sense that lyricists are "Staff" but my understanding is that arrangement also isn't technically musical composition, so shouldn't they be "Staff" too?
I am not sure but I would have put them as staff because arranging and composing are two different things which can overlap. I assume Jazz grouped them together because they are both music writing. It's a very difficult subject. I would prefer for the composer role to be limited to composers and not arrangers to not create confusion.
Side note: when someone did both the composition and the arrangement, composer alone is fine as it means he did everything. It's probably a legal issue, at this point, to credit both roles?

Now, I would love to know what I did in practice because I don't remember. I rarely add that kind of staff. It would be funny if I did something completely different as to what I said, right?Last modified on 2020-10-09 at 04:34