The how to edit thread

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#676 by beliar
2021-07-24 at 14:00
< report >John Smith in Russian would be Джон Смит. If you transliterate the Cyrillic, you get Dzhon Smit. The same can be said for Japanese. John Smith in katakana is ジョン スミス (Jono Sumisu). It's quite obvious that in such instances we shouldn't bastardize the name and use it as it's originally intended.

Outside of native Japanese names, if we can tell what name is the original, we shouldn't use the direct romanization, but rather the original name. It has always been applied for kana renditions of the names - it's only the fact that this name is in Cyrillic that has confused you, but the situation is not different at all.

If we can clearly see that the original is a common Finnish surname, it should be used instead of the direct Cyrillic romanization.
#677 by xiandora
2021-07-26 at 01:46
< report >
Idk what I should say to him since he seems convinced that his logic of measuring playtime (autoplay) is the correct one :( I'd just like the database to have realistic info about the vns. Some people could be put off by the "long" setting of Iwaihime, thinking it to be too long to read even though the average person most likely would read the novel in ~20 hours. Whatever then. I don't want to have a headache over this.
Just present the facts and arguments if it doesn't seem likely you can "converse" with him about it - stats of the average playtimes, opinions of other people etc. References, links, arguments and whatever else is relevant. The point is just that you want to at least *try* to convince him before re-editing it - at least preferably. Wether he's going to bend or not is all up to him.

Once you've determined what he's likely to do you can go from there.
#678 by Ninius
2021-07-28 at 11:46
< report >Should the title of Bewitched be My Aunt Is a Witch if it's the latest release title? All the physical releases have it in their covers.Last modified on 2021-07-28 at 11:48
#679 by NaioHoras
2021-07-28 at 12:56
< report >the DB usually use the first complete release as the main title.
#680 by Ninius
2021-07-28 at 12:58
< report >There are "complete" release titles that have been changed because the game changed titles afterwards. For example The Confines of the Crown.Last modified on 2021-07-28 at 12:58
#681 by beliar
2021-07-28 at 13:12
< report >I also hold the position that the main VN title should correspond to the first complete release. Yes, The Confines of the Crown is an outlier and imho should be changed. There are hundreds of JP VNs that change titles during the re-release or for a console release, but no-one even thinks about changing their main titles. However, for the few OELVNs that changed the titles, someone immediate changed the main title too... That's one inconsistency that probably shouldn't be kept.
#682 by Ninius
2021-07-28 at 13:13
< report >Then what about the fact that the physical cover should be as cover image? Wouldn't it be stupid that the cover has different title?
#683 by NaioHoras
2021-07-28 at 13:19
< report >#682 the cover depends on the editor's taste, though I believe the first complete release should be the main cover, although that's not the best answer out there, hence this thread t14195
#684 by beliar
2021-07-28 at 13:27
< report >
Wouldn't it be stupid that the cover has different title?
I don't really see it as an issue. Covers represent the vide range of releases. Sometimes they are that of the first release, sometimes a reissue, sometimes a console port. What matters is that the cover is of good quality and represents the VN, though it's pretty subjective and we do occasionally get cover edit wars. The current cover of The Confines of the Crown simply represents the re-release.
#685 by Ileca
2021-07-29 at 09:38
< report >
I also hold the position that the main VN title should correspond to the first complete release. Yes, The Confines of the Crown is an outlier and imho should be changed. There are hundreds of JP VNs that change titles during the re-release or for a console release, but no-one even thinks about changing their main titles. However, for the few OELVNs that changed the titles, someone immediate changed the main title too... That's one inconsistency that probably shouldn't be kept.
Are we already going to allow exceptions? v248.75
#686 by beliar
2021-07-29 at 09:42
< report >Ugh... Infinity has five routes. It was renamed to Never7 after adding two more routes from a fandisc. It's no different than say any other JP game getting renamed for a console release after getting a few new routes, so logically there is no reason to make an exception here. The only argument that I can see, is that it keeps the series titles consistent, but I'm not inclined to believe this is a strong argument.
#687 by Ileca
2021-07-29 at 09:57
< report >I agree with you but like the guy who reverted me brought a thread where you were involved and said "everyone's associating the VN with the name Never7", I didn't want to be reverted again and am basically asking you to do my bidding group bully revert in my stead.
#688 by phantom-zero-12
2021-07-29 at 15:06
< report >My arguments in favour of keeping it Never7 are that:

1. Never7 is the name associated with the VN by 99% of people who have played it as there has not been a single release with the name "Infinity" outside of the original Playstation release (which was replaced just months after launch). Changing it to that name will just cause more unecessary confusion as most people who've played Never7 have never heard of a VN called Infinity.

2. It keeps it consistent with the rest of the titles in the series.
#689 by adamstan
2021-07-29 at 17:47
< report >
there has not been a single release with the name "Infinity" outside of the original Playstation release

Well, that's not exactly correct, since there were also PS2, PSP and PC box set releases with this title afterwards:
r626, r2508 and r26788, which suggests, that from dev's point of view it's "Infinity series".Last modified on 2021-07-29 at 17:48
#690 by phantom-zero-12
2021-07-29 at 18:11
< report >The "Infinity Plus" releases are referring to the Infinity series as a whole, even within that collection this VN is called Never7.

Yes, the title of the series is "Infinity", but from the devs point of view this VN itself is called "Never7", not only because that's always been the title of rereleases, but also on things like the official timeline of the series and the retrospective in Remember11 where a VN titled "Infinity" is never mentioned.

I'm getting off topic though, my main reason for wanting to keep it as Never7 is because it will just cause uneccessary confusion.Last modified on 2021-07-29 at 18:11
#691 by adamstan
2021-07-29 at 18:23
< report >Then perhaps solution would be to split "Infinity" PS1 release as a separate "alternative version" VN entry, as has been done with To Heart and ToHeart?Last modified on 2021-07-29 at 18:23
#692 by beliar
2021-07-29 at 18:27
< report >Actually, it was split before, but was merged following a discussion t6248, which I believe was a correct decision. We usually don't make alternative versions for VNs that iddn't receive significant rewrites, and only obtained a few new routes. The situation with To Heart and ToHeart seems to be completely different, as apparently the game has been completely rewritten, making it a remake.
#693 by adamstan
2021-07-29 at 18:41
< report >Then perhaps an exception from naming rule would be in order here. The reasoning of first release being outlier and obscure seem sound. And since the name was changed after mere 6 months, 20 years ago, it's quite different to the abovementioned practice of changing OLEVN titles with each release ;)

But that's from the point of view of the "usability >> consistency" faction ;) At the very least, "Never7" should be included as an alias.

Or perhaps, naming rule should be similar to cover picture rule? Not "taken from first release" but "the most representative one"?Last modified on 2021-07-29 at 18:45
#694 by beliar
2021-07-29 at 18:49
< report >
At the very least, "Never7" should be included as an alias.
Aliases are there for searchability. As the search also parses the release titles, aliases added shouldn't correspond to already existing release titles.

That said, the fact how quickly the title was changed, plus the obscurity of the first release title could make this worthy of an exception, but I would like more opinions on the matter.

So, do you guys think the main VN title of Infinity should be "Infinity", which corresponds to the first complete release of the game, or "never7" which is the most well known title of the game?

Not "taken from first release" but "the most representative one"?
That's fine for images, as art is already pretty subjective, but I feel this is too subjective for naming conventions.Last modified on 2021-07-29 at 18:50
#695 by phantom-zero-12
2021-07-29 at 18:54
< report >I'm not trying to get the naming rules completely changed lol, I just think that in this specific instance it makes the most sense to make an exception.
#696 by Ileca
2021-07-29 at 19:10
< report >Exceptions is what put us in a tough place every time. You either use the original name or the newest name. Just be consistent. OELVN being fickle is not a good reason to give some Japanese game a pass that you will have to explain every time someone will want to rename a vn page's title.

You search Never 7 and land on this Infinity page. Big deal. Scroll down, you will understand why and now are smarter because you know a new fact.
#697 by nakenashi
2021-07-30 at 04:24
< report >If there was ever a good reason to make an exception to the original name rule, it's this one.

While Infinity was the title of the initial release, it really could be considered as more of an incomplete proto version of Never7, which is the first title of the Infinity series. Renaming it to the original title on principle adds unnecessary ambiguity for the series as a whole, breaking the naming continuity the database has with the other titles, and really doesn't do anyone any favors at the end of the day.
#698 by badspot
2021-07-30 at 06:34
< report >I don't understand the point of this change. Literally everyone refers to Never7 as Never7, not 'Infinity'. Sure it was the original release but nobody fucking calls it that way lmao.Last modified on 2021-07-30 at 06:35
#699 by Ezezin
2021-07-30 at 06:51
< report >I prefer to keep "Infinity" as its name, makes the naming with other vn consistent. I can't see how the actual name could be confusing to some people when we have the relations page.
#700 by blahblah35
2021-07-30 at 06:56
< report >I think that keeping "Infinity" is the best thing too. I don't understand why it should be renamed because some people knew it under "Never7". Releases refer to Never7 when it's needed and actually the case, but the VN is called Infinity in the end.