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#776 by beliar
2021-10-06 at 20:29
< report >Ah, I didn't check and somehow believed the situation was reversed: that there was only a single tag and multiple traits. Apparently, for some reason it's actually inverted...

Technically, you got it right what I was saying. I would prefer those child tags to be turned into traits and leave only those few Kemonomimi tags. Though I believed it's already done -.-'
#777 by ninius
2021-10-10 at 10:45
< report >Is Otaku used here in the Western or Japanese sense? Or both? I don't really see Miyashiro Takuru as an otaku, he's just an information/camera nerd and Cool Cat Press magazine collector.Last modified on 2021-10-10 at 13:30
#778 by beliar
2021-10-11 at 15:49
< report >The description is more closely related to the Japanese meaning, but it seems the trait is mostly used in the Western meaning. Mayhap it would be smart to redefine the trait as relating to obsession with Japanese media (Western meaning), create a new trait Nerd, and put Otaku under it?
#779 by mrkew
2021-10-11 at 17:28
< report >There's already Japanophile for that.
#780 by lolifoxie
2021-10-14 at 08:56
< report >I really want to know, why these chars entries are instances of the main game's ones? Doesn't this count as a duplication? Also, t16873.1
#781 by aptx-4869
2021-10-16 at 01:37
< report >I think it's just that you can't not list a character under a game it appears in just because it appeared in another...
but they most likely can be different in age, traits, different character design by a remake and a different VA???, b/w/h, or cup size :)
#782 by fllthdcrb
2021-10-16 at 02:45
< report >
I think it's just that you can't not list a character under a game it appears in just because it appeared in anothe...

Of course not. But a single character can be linked to any number of VNs. There's no need to duplicate them just for that reason.

but they most likely can be different in age, traits, different character design by a remake and a different VA???, b/w/h, or cup size :)

If they're different in the right ways. d12 contains guidelines.Last modified on 2021-10-16 at 02:48
#783 by eacil
2021-10-16 at 02:57
< report >58 freaking characters to delete...

Those games have no information except the teaser so you don't even know which characters they will feature for sure.
#784 by slashslayer
2021-10-20 at 17:29
< report >hello, i'd like to remember Beliar that after he deleted the Infinity entry, he forgot to do the very same thing with Infinity Cure. The reason for that is as it can be seen in this post, he mistakenly made the assumption that Infinity Cure is a standalone title. It is not, as you can see from its releases list in its VN entry:it was published as a standalone only once, exactly like Infinity, for both were titles released individually only once ever and then turned obsolete with Never7, which appends both titles as one singular story through 7 routes(there is no "Infinity" or "Infinity Cure" section in Never7, the content of both titles are handled equally as parts of one that is the entire game, completely ignoring the earlier releases' existence). The result of this is that once a user adds ANY Never7 release to their list, their list gets really messy as it not only adds the Never7 VN entry, but also forcefully adds the Infinity Cure VN entry(as you can see in my list currently). This makes no sense because how is one supposed to choose a vote for a VN, then do the same separately for a specific part of the same VN? It is as if once someone added "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai" into their list they were also forced to have a "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Chapter 8" VN entry in their list at the same time, it is redundant and inconsistent

I made an awful approach when I tried to ask for a fix of this situation some time ago, so I'm trying to compensate my mistake now. I might be just sounding excessively persistent, but I'm honestly just trying to make easy communication here to try to help the database's organization
#785 by slashslayer
2021-10-20 at 17:30
< report >lastly, i also want to say that i am all ears to help and suggestions about trying to speak about this issue correctfully; I thought about making this post in the "Candidates for deletion" thread, in Never7 discussions and even in Infinity Cure discussions threads, but I came to the conclusion that posting here would be for the best since it seems to be the most notorious thread for this matter. I apologize beforehand for any troubles or inconveniences that I may have caused without wanting to.
#786 by ezezin
2021-10-20 at 17:44
< report >@Slashslayer Read t2108.3983, after that start reading from t8242.686Last modified on 2021-10-20 at 17:44
#787 by slashslayer
2021-10-20 at 17:56
< report >hey, I myself caused the first post that you mentioned. I've also already read everything in the second discussion. No conclusion about the topic that I'm talking about right now appeared anywhere

one thing that a lot of people are apparently misunderstanding is that I'm just repeating a discussion that was already finished some time ago. I'm not.
what was being discussed was whether "Infinity" deserved to be the main title or "Never7". the conclusion that Beliar came up with was that "Infinity" was a prototype of "Never7" and must be considered only as an incomplete release of such. I completely respect that decision. What I'm talking about here is one of the consequences it brings: If "Infinity" is just a forgotten incomplete release of "Never7", logically and inevitably, "Infinity Cure" is the same. So, if Beliar decision is that "the Infinity VN entry must be deleted and considered only as an incomplete Never7 release", naturally the same applies to Infinity Cure. It's pretty simple
#788 by beliar
2021-10-20 at 18:04
< report >*Sigh*. I don't necessarily think your idea is a terrible one, Slashslayer... I get what you want to do: you want Infinity and Infinity cure to be two partial releases of Never7 that later became a full release containing both parts. So, basically like ef - A Fairy Tale of the Two.. That said, I'm pretty sure this might be terribly received by the Infinity fans. After all, renaming Never7 to Infinity caused quite a backlash.

Also, for some reason you insist of shoveling this heap of trouble onto me.... >.> There are other mods, you know.... That said, if you got some support behind you regarding this, I might consider flirting with merging the entries.
#789 by historyeraser
2021-10-20 at 21:25
< report >Yeah merging the entries is the sensible option here.
#790 by eacil
2021-10-20 at 22:27
< report >The thing is, if you don't merge, that makes you inconsistent with your own decision of considering r5872 as a partial release. That's the only way I see to be myself satisfied with your decision of renaming Infinity as Never7. Yes, like ef. As of now, it doesn't make much sense to keep the second partial release r5873 separated. There are 18 votes on Cure. Who is gonna whine anyway?
However, if we do that, I want to be clear this means that if...
-a fandisc or another game/release happens to be created with the purpose in mind to be merged together, and by that I mean you end up with a single game well merged, not just a bundle with a common interface
-the result can't be a stand alone VN on its own like Noah and the releases are basically equally spread on the separated parts like Never7
-it's not a fancy alternative way of presenting an existing game like I believe I don't know which edition of Higurashi which merge all the chapter into a branching game from what I have heard
... then they should not be split in the first place. We have enough inconsistency like that to not add more.
Honestly, I don't like the fact that ef doesn't have a windows version of the two games together...

In fact, if we do that, I think White Album 2 ~Introductory Chapter~ and White Album 2 ~Closing Chapter~ should be merged together as I believe that they are two parts of a single game, right? 7/10 releases of the first chapter include both, only one release of the second chapter is a stand alone release.
Yeah, you already regret to have woken me up, I can see it on your tired face. I have never understood why two obvious parts of the same game (duh they are called Introductory Chapter and Closing Chapter) are split like that. It has always confused me. Maybe there is a thread about that somewhere?

It all stems from how the db is built. I would have made (I am better than the webmaster mode ACTIVATED) the data model release-based with umbrella VN entries, the difference being that you would have voted on the releases, not the VN, and the umbrellas would have merged the votes together to get a global score. Even allow to vote on those umbrellas directly for convenience. That way you could have details on how each chapter of Higurashi fares and have a global score for the whole series. Coefs would have to be given to the fractions, probably. It would probably resolve our many problems with splitting as the releases would be the base unit as those are very objective, and umbrellas would be logical gathering of releases as an abstract layer. You could even have multiple overlapping umbrellas like Higurashi Question Arc, Higurashi Answers Arc, Higurashi Q+A, Higurashi the whole saga, etc, as many as the logic would want. Users would even be able to gather scores as they wish. It would even fit well with Yorhel's will to add covers for releases. I am better than the webmaster mode DISABLED. Head swelling reduced by 80%.
Edit: this is nothing really new under the sun, I know.

Btw do we agree that Tsukikagerou -Senshuu Renka- and Tsukikagerou should be merged?
Edit: in fact, what about VN with only patches which are not fanmods?
Episode: Ave Maria ~Alphabet Children~
Highway Blossoms: Next Exit
Doxa paradox ????
Patchouli Knowledge's Surprise
Abyssal Eden ????

If you accept Next Exit to have a separate page then stuff like r43978 will have the same aka every patch with standalone stories. I am not against that but we have to decide which way. Given that we have plenty of VN pages for short extras, I say why not?

Btw, I had a recent problem with partial/complete. Are patches supposed to be marked as partial or complete? Not talking about tl patches. Are DLC partial or not? The db is pretty inconsistent > link
Technically, a patch only has partial content, but on the other hand, a patch is not supposed to stand on its own as it expands the main content. On the first hand, making them partial makes them easier to spot in the release listing, allowing us to grasp easily which releases are the main games. I think I prefer them marked as partial. Yes, it means changing every 18+ patches into partial.

Edit: relevant list of fandiscs as I noticed we can't search that.Last modified on 2021-10-21 at 00:28
#791 by slashslayer
2021-10-21 at 01:14
< report >
That said, I'm pretty sure this might be terribly received by the Infinity fans. After all, renaming Never7 to Infinity caused quite a backlash.

if that was your reasoning, i would just like to have read it sooner. I might disagree 100% with it, but being rejected is better than being ignored

Also, for some reason you insist of shoveling this heap of trouble onto me....

i'm sorry, lol. that was not my intention. i just saw that it was you the one to make the decision of deleting the Infinity entry and i thought you'd be more eager to listen to me. i also think you're one of the most open-minded moderators here, personally

That said, if you got some support behind you regarding this, I might consider flirting with merging the entries.

i'm all alone here, so i can't say i have some people backing me up, no. but if you want my opinion on the matter, I'd say that the Infinity fans won't cause much of a backlash for something that this website considers a fandisk already. if you want to please them, anyway, you could just ressurrect the Infinity entry and leaving the 3 VNs(Never7, Infinity and Infinity Cure) as separate works, as someone had already said in that discussion, that's probably what all Infinity series fans here want the most(i just would want to make sure for the database to consider the "Infinity" and "Infinity Cure" releases separately from the Never7 ones, of course!)

Yeah merging the entries is the sensible option here.
The thing is, if you don't merge, that makes you inconsistent with your own decision
whoops, it seems i take back what i said, i do have some support!
Eacil's point also makes sense, who's going to trouble over a fandisk with 18 votes when the "bigger damage"(deleting the "Infinity" VN) to their opinion has already been done anyway? it would be really irrational and contradictory of them
#792 by slashslayer
2021-10-21 at 01:28
< report >actually, one of my last remarks gave me an idea that would fix my main problem here: if you moderators really don't want to merge the entries, then all the releases that include both Never7 and Infinity Cure could exclude Infinity Cure, which would make the VN entry have just its only separated release listed here(which is accurate)
i think this is pretty fair since in the same way the C;H Noah-exclusive content recontextualizes what is Chaos;Head PC, the Infinity Cure routes can give different impressions if its contents are put together with the other 5 routes in one game instead of them being isolated in a fandisk

in hindsight, i think i could have done that from the beginning...damn. anyway, if you all would rather have this option, i myself can do such edit
#793 by eacil
2021-10-21 at 01:53
< report >Noah stands on its own because it is considered a different game by many afaik. Never7 doesn't diverge significantly from Infinity+Cure, right? If this is the case, I don't see the need to consider Cure as a Noah-like, nor do I see the need to do that for votes as nobody have a reason to read Infinity and Cure separately, or just read Infinity alone and ignore Cure. Merging is more satisfying and clear. This is not different from console releases adding new heroines. The confusion comes from the fact that it is a stand alone release with a weird choice of medium and wasn't a patch. In a way, Cure shouldn't even be considered something special given that Never7 was released a month later! That's mainly the reason of this mess. We wouldn't have this problem without r5873.
#794 by slashslayer
2021-10-21 at 02:11
< report >yes, you're right. Infinity+Cure does have some differences according to the previous discussion(route order, Infinity being too much buggy etc.) but none even remotely relevant enough
#795 by adamstan
2021-10-21 at 04:34
< report >@790 - I'm all in for both of your suggestions - voting on releases with "umbrellas" over them and merging two White Album 2 chapters. I suggested the latter before, but AFAIR it was shot down due to large number of votes those entries have that would get messed up this way.Last modified on 2021-10-21 at 04:34
#796 by blahblah35
2021-10-21 at 15:06
< report >I was browsing Freem! and I saw that a lot of production are not here on VNDB. Before adding bunch of stuff, I wanted to know, is there criterias before adding an entry here ? Or it just has to be a Visual Novel ?
#797 by cubky
2021-10-21 at 15:17
< report >@796 you can read d2#1 to have a better understanding of what can be added to the db
#798 by eacil
2021-10-21 at 20:14
< report >On Freem!, I would say it's ok to assume that as long as they classified the game as a "novel game" and enough screenshots show it looks like a VN (no RPG Maker gameplay or lack of text but CG/tachie + ADV/NVL box), it can be added here without downloading the game to check. That's what I do.
You are more than welcome to add those games because there are tons of them and nobody adds them. I tried once and it was painful because it's extremely hard to find the release date.

But yeah, check d2#1 before adding anything.

Edit: it has more than 4k novel games. At this point you gotta think about designing a bot to add them automatically. >.>Last modified on 2021-10-21 at 20:19
#799 by blahblah35
2021-10-22 at 17:35
< report >Ok, so, I made a scrapper, to get all the VN from Freem! there is around 3700 entries. I have a JSON with author/title(with hepburn romaji)/date/plateform/rating, should I upload it somewhere ? Do I have to make the add via VNDB Api ?
#800 by yorhel
2021-10-22 at 17:45
< report >The only way to automatically add entries to the database is for me to create a script to do so. I can have a look at the JSON if you upload it somewhere, but I'm not sure it makes much sense to do an automatic import for such bare entries.