The how to edit thread

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#26 by kiru
2017-06-19 at 12:19
Uh, I think romanization is not about the grammar, but about how to pronounce it. Meaning it's important that the romanization shows that as good as possible.

This is why just tte alone is weird. How the heck are you even saying "tte". The way it's usually spoken is that the part before tte is emphasized and the te is attached after a small break I suppose (coming from the emphasizing). Which is why I said attached. It modifies the word it comes with, which other particles don't really do like that.
That said, you can do it with -te as well, as it gives a very similar feeling and might be easier to understand. But if the - is already used for other stuff where the pronunciation is different, that's indeed bad. But I'm really not seeing tte alone. Maybe that's just me though.
#27 by tyr
2017-06-19 at 15:36
It shouldn't be attached because it's not a conjugation, it's two different elements (って being a particle) which are not combined to create a new one.
This is indeed why it shouldn't be attached.

The only problem I see is the って can quote a whole sentence
And this is why dash is also not good.

tte alone is the only correct choice here.
#28 by eacil
2017-06-19 at 21:55
And this is why dash is also not good.
Yeah, I did some visualization and if it works with words alone, it sucks when it is linked to sentences. It makes it look like って is only about the last word when it's not, and it's even worse with ""Hentai Mask Seigi no Mikata wa T-back.-tte Aho na!" kind of example. The perfect solution would be something like separated but with a dash or an apostrophe but I am not here to reinvent the system. Still, "tte" alone is really ugly.

I will also fix all the "desu" without a capital letter and the "nandesu ka/ga" in one word.
Also 城 > "-jou" for names of castles like in Fuyajou ~Hikisakareta Junketsu~.
Same, 化 should be appended with a dash but what about 女体化? Nyotai-ka? I see it in one word because MtF genderswap is not a neologism anymore I guess?Last modified on 2017-06-19 at 22:09
#29 by eacil
2017-07-21 at 20:18
Can we lock Robotics;Notes DaSH for edition? Already 9 editions about relations coz people really want to put them even though so little was announced so they will keep editing based on assumptions ad infinitum. This is getting annoying.
I guess this won't prevent to edit from others VN, right?Last modified on 2017-07-21 at 20:29
#30 by delusionparadox
2017-07-21 at 21:04
The relation between Chaos;Head and Chaos;Child is the same any of these games have with the others from the same series other than sharing concepts which don't matter for these classifications and are set in the same city which relevance isn't enough to make the C;H-C;C "same setting" relation unique, meanwhile the events on this VN do have a huge influence on the other entries and vice versa. Also, Chiyomaru confirmed on stream that the events from C;C will play a main role on the events happening in R;ND. Almost all of the SciADV games have a huge influence in the others and the only way to link almost all of these are by "same setting" except for a few exceptions like fandiscs and S;G/C;H with R;N/R;ND. If we had to link all of these by purely one single relation there would be no proper way of doing so because of the relevance from every of these entries to all of the others. To make this fair we would have to either remove almost the entirety of relations between the VNs of Science Adventure because they "are pointless" (when the relevance is actually huge) and relate them in some way which couldn't be accurate in the slightest due to every entry having a lot of relevance in the others, or just add the others that I previously added to C;C which is much simpler and wouldn't damage the entirety of the relations of this series.
#31 by eacil
2017-07-21 at 22:53
Only specify direct relations. If one game 1 is listed to have a relation with game 2, and game 2 has a relation with game 3, then game 3 does not have to be added as a relation to game 1. This may sound a bit confusing at first, but you will understand when you look at the relation graphs. When editing relations, always try to think about the relations between all related games - as shown in the graph - instead of only looking at the specific visual novel you're editing.

What you want to do (and tried to with C;C) is cross every VN with each other "because they are all set in the same universe". This rule prevents such behavior because we don't want a huge mess of relations. We want to keep everything clean from redundancies. I didn't delete those relations because of (lack of) knowledge but because of logic. You won't ever perfectly explain what are the relations between all those VN just with a tiny arrow anyway and you will always have someone to ask for clarification in a thread, like t9323 prove it, because arrows don't have intrinsically such data with them. If someone wants the big picture he will have to look at all the relations and by doing that he will be able to do inferences.

In fact, I was like you before, I was adding every relation to every related VN and I was wrong. I understood that when (I was reverted...) I looked at the relation graph. Do the same, look at link. Go to the right and forget about the really annoying Soukou Akki Muramasa relation. Now add your relations and you will understand that you are just messing the graph without adding any relevant data you can't already infer from looking at the graph.

if Chaos;Head = Same setting > Steins;Gate & Chaos;Child then Chaos;Child doesn't need Steins;Gate Same setting relation
if Robotics;Notes = Prequel > Robotics;Notes DaSH then then Chaos;Child doesn't need Robotics;Notes DaSH Same setting relation
if Chaos;Child = Same setting > Chaos;Head and Chaos;Head = Shares characters (in fact +same setting) > Robotics;Notes then Chaos;Child doesn't need Robotics;Notes Same setting relation

Peculiarly, to put Robotics;Notes and Robotics;Notes DaSH as Same setting of the same VN is like putting the third installment of a VN as a Sequel of the first installment, it's a direct infringement of this rule.

Yeah, "Chiyomaru confirmed on stream that the events from C;C will play a main role on the events happening in R;ND" but how adding two Same setting arrows to R;N and DaSH will explain that to the user? All he will see is something he already knows: Robotics;Notes DaSH has the same setting as C;C because it was already stated by the "Robotics;Notes DaSH is a prequel to R;N" relation (which shares characters with C;H which shares setting with C;C). If later we learn that DaSH shares characters with C;C, you could add such relation and that would be more meaningful because not already stated. (Because C;C doesn't share characters with C;H.)

Same, moving back through the relations will explain that everything is tied by the same setting. Having three more Same setting relations linked to C;C will not help the user to reach a better understanding of the universe than he had when he saw that C;C has the same setting as C;H.

If it _really_ matters, you can explicit those relations in the description of said VN.

I also plan on:
-removing> Steins;Gate/Chaos;Head <Shares characters> Robotics;Notes DaSH --- DaSH is a sequel of R;N which already have those relations.
-changing> Steins;Gate: Hen'i Kuukan no Octet = Fandisc > Steins;Gate --- a fandisk is something short, not something 10-30H long full-fledged VN (inb4 the relevance of the VN to the whole series shouldn't matter). I propose Alternative version. I was thinking about Side story but this "side" story is supposed to be as meaningful as the main like it's the same one narrated from other POV. (Btw, we will finally have a PC fanport r50418 but I really don't understand why it was tled from the chinese when it was already tled by Zakobot. This seems a waste of time to me even more when it will lose accuracy.)Last modified on 2017-07-21 at 23:18
#32 by delusionparadox
2017-07-21 at 23:40
-removing> Steins;Gate/Chaos;Head <Shares characters> Robotics;Notes DaSH --- DaSH is a sequel of R;N which already have those relations.
It's a different story which we aren't even sure whether it's going to happen before or after, but by what we know you are going to need to have played R;N, so it's not really all that obvious in this case, since the main plot doesn't go around R;N, it's just set as a R;N entry because it will do what the R;N entries are supposed to do, mix characters from all 3 entries (Chaos, Steins;Gate and R;N), so I wouldn't be sure about changing that relation yet, at least for now. If for some reason they decided to scrap all of it, we could just change it as we get the news about it.

Also I don't think the length matters for what is a fandisc and what isn't, and precisely because the relevance of the VN to the whole series should matter it's why it is a fandisc. But on this case, Alternative version might still be valid.
On another note, Octet isn't really that long, it's a around 5 hours at most, so I don't know what you meant by 10-30 hours, you might have wanted to mention a different one. If you meant Phenogram/Darling, those are as much of a fandisc as they can get, plus they are completely uncanon and they definitely feel like the usual cheaply made story for the sake of milking. They are even officially marketed as fandiscs. As another example, Muv-Luv Altered Fable is also definitely a fandisc and it's that same length.Last modified on 2017-07-21 at 23:58
#33 by eacil
2017-07-22 at 00:44
My bad, I was talking about Steins;Gate Senkei Kousoku no Phenogram. By relevance, I was talking about how it was received by its public (the fact that it is cheap and milking the license i.e. how it was liked). I didn't know it was marketed as a fandisc. Where did you see that?
And it's not canon? I thought it was useless but still canon, if not, I don't see its purpose (or was it decanonified by 0, which is different?)...
#34 by nvortex
2017-07-22 at 01:24
In fact, I was like you before, I was adding every relation to every related VN and I was wrong. I understood that when (I was reverted...) I looked at the relation graph. Do the same, look at link. Go to the right and forget about the really annoying Soukou Akki Muramasa relation. Now add your relations and you will understand that you are just messing the graph without adding any relevant data you can't already infer from looking at the graph.

Actually if you add in all those relations you took off you don't have to deal again with the "really annoying Soukou Akki Muramasa relation"(I just made a thread asking if the cameos are relevant enough to have them, if they aren't I will remove the links fixing the relations chart for the other games too) because SciADV ends up right at the beginning of the chart. Originally I had added all of the relations to have the SciADV series neatly packed and doing so had the added the bonus of having the series at the beginning of the chart, I assume delusionparadox saw that too and that's why he wants to readd the relations I had edited(?). However now that I think about it instead of usng the "same setting" option, they should probably have the "same series" and the only one that should retain the "same setting" should be C;H-C;C because they literally follow the actual meaning of "same setting". Throughout the entire series there are references to previous game, Kurisu is even mentioned in C;C that's why I added all those relations and why I don't think they are redundant.

about Steins;Gate Senkei Kousoku no Phenogram[...] And it's not canon? I thought it was useless but still canon, if not, I don't see its purpose (or was it decanonified by 0, which is different?)...

It's absolutely non canon and it had always been a fandisc.
#35 by delusionparadox
2017-07-22 at 12:33
they should probably have the "same series"
Then could we just relate C;H-C;C as "Same setting", R;N/R;ND-S;G/C;H as "Shares characters" and C;H/C;C-S;G as "Same series"? That way we could have them linked while specifying more properly what their relation is with each other, and S;G/C;H characters have a big relevance in R;N/R;ND.
#36 by raykable
2017-07-23 at 02:05
There's only 1 worldline, it just gets modified over and over, so technically everything that doesn't lead to S;G's True End (or at least makes it near impossible to do so) isn't canon.
If you want to go further, Phenogram also breaks a lot of rules established in S;G (probably due to being written by a lot of random authors). So Darling isn't canon but Phenogram is even less.Last modified on 2017-07-23 at 04:21
#37 by 707
2017-08-03 at 09:27
please do something about this Narumi Kōki i dont want to start an edit war
#38 by wakaranai
2017-08-03 at 09:40
^ d5.1 we don't use diacritics in romanization, so it should be Narumi Kouki, no question about that.
#39 by stageground
2017-08-22 at 21:15
Can the alias space in character pages be used for Japanese aliases, or is it generally meant for romanized/English aliases only?

Also, do mobile games in which you can play the entire main story for free, but which have premium segments you have to pay to read, count as freeware? I'm looking at some already existing games I know and it seems the marking is mixed.
#40 by eacil
2017-08-22 at 22:09
1/ yes, you can add japanese aliases... and you should romanize them too.

2/ you create one release > freeware and trial (if you didn't pay you basically had access to a demo, which is the principle of this kind of releases) and another one > non-free, complete, patch. "Patch" only if you need to dl something to install above the trial. If you can dl the full game as a stand-alone, it's subsequently not a patch. Create a new release (patch and non-patch) if there are those two modes of releases.
I guess the download edition will always be a patch (because you will want your saves and your progression) with the physical edition a stand-alone from the beginning.
You write notes, explaining: -in the trial which parts are accessible and that you will be prompted to pay to access remaining parts of the story, -in the complete release that you need to dl the trial and patch it to have a full version.
It's how I would do it but maybe I am wrong so wait for someone else to contradict me.Last modified on 2017-08-23 at 04:14
#41 by stageground
2017-08-23 at 02:32
So the type of game I'm thinking of--which appears to be a common format for mobile otome games--is just one download that "contains" the entire release. (It's an online mobile game so you load as you read.)

As you progress in the story, you hit checkpoints that you can either pass with the (free) in-game currency or with real money. If you pay real money, you get a presumably better and longer scene, but both methods yield a scene, and afterwards you continue on the same path. All main story sections, including the endings, are accessible for free, but the "premium" scenes are only obtained through payment.

I'm leaning towards freeware, maybe with a note? but would definitely like a confirmation either way from more experienced users.
#42 by eacil
2017-08-23 at 04:40
Ah, ok, it's totally different than what I was thinking about with checkpoints you can't unlock until you pay.
It looks like it's based on shitty freemium gacha kusosociage where you pay for the progression and exclusive content.
Well, it's non-free to me with current options. You can't access the full game (longer scenes) without paying.
If I was you, I would ask Yorhel to add a new freemium option to free/non-free options which are unfitting to this case. I suggest the FAQ to include as freemium not only games which need money to access full content but also those designed to bother the user with a *cost* which can be overridden with money. It means _time taken to fulfill a task_. People think that if you can access full content at the cost of time, it is a minor inconvenience which doesn't change the free status but it's definitely not true. Time is a very precious goods which can be converted in money and you will see that those taking the "free" path aka the grinding path will waste much more value than an underpaid guy using his little salary, even if you include the fun factor. No, mocking tongues, it won't include bad RPG, the criteria being the progression asking for a cost which can be overridden by money (directly or indirectly).

So, even if the freemium option won't be created, I think I explained why I think it should definitely be non-free (with a note, right). The mindset used to choose this business model is not the one anyone should consider as free, and in your case it is not even technically.Last modified on 2017-08-23 at 04:44


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