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#801 by aptx-4869
2021-10-22 at 18:05
< report >following Never7 discussion...
I honestly think infinity should be restored... my point is:
games that are made as completely separate and later merged into one release should be treated as separate games along with the merging game. games that are made with the intent of being merged and then DO get merged into one release should be a single game with partial releases... regarding cases where the merged name is unknown you can either create separate entries and then merge them or use the first release's name until the releases get merged then rename it... I prefer the latter because of the hassle of merging entries and other stuff.

obviously we're talking here about merged games which have a UI to choose which entry to play or it just plays them in the correct order not just the games bundled together.
if it's just a bundle we add a release of the bundle under each game.
#802 by blahblah35
2021-10-22 at 18:17
< report >In understand, it's true that even with my data, we have to do things by hand after, such as adding screenshots & stuff. It's not ideal.
#803 by phantom-zero-12
2021-10-22 at 18:26
< report >I think there is an argument for not only Cure being kept seperate, but also Infinity being restored.

One of the main arguments during the debate regarding Chaos;Head Noah is that the additional content completely recontextualizes the rest of the game to the point where it's impossible to call it the same. A huge amount of Never7 spoiler content does not apply to Infinity whatsoever. It's really hard to explain without spoilers but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

Furthermore, Never7 features a significant amount of additional story content anyway. If the mods are adament about keeping Infinity and Never7 merged then I understand but I feel like it makes far more sense to simply seperate the two.
#804 by aptx-4869
2021-10-22 at 18:27
< report >as for t8242.799... I'd say that's just bloating the database with bare entries that no one cares about... if you really want to add all of that then get releases, relations, covers, descriptions, chars, etc. (in order of importance) then maybe an automatic addition could be possible... just have to confirm with yorhel before if you're going to actually gather that.

otherwise just make the entries you want and fill them with the required data.Last modified on 2021-10-22 at 18:28
#805 by blahblah35
2021-10-22 at 18:30
< report >@804 It's not something that you can scrap from the web, you actually have to play the game to get that. It's true that it's not worth it to make it automatic here ^^
#806 by slashslayer
2021-10-22 at 22:04
< report >#801
I honestly think infinity should be restored...
games that are made with the intent of being merged and then DO get merged into one release should be a single game with partial releases...

aren't you contradicting yourself? Infinity/Never7 would fall in the case i quoted, which would mean Infinity would remain as a partial release and not restored

If the mods are adament about keeping Infinity and Never7 merged then I understand but I feel like it makes far more sense to simply seperate the two.

this is a really subjective topic anyway, i think that persisting in a discussion that was already ended some months ago would get nowhere because all points of view presented here are valid in their own way. Merging both entries into N7 with Cure only as a partial release would probably put an end to it all mostly since the inconsistency that Eacil also noted and mentioned would be deleted and probably forgotten
#807 by Ileca
2021-10-22 at 22:28
< report >About Freem, I do feel the need to use a script because, let's be honest, those games are never gonna be added by someone. The task is too huge, even if the information is bare, and the information will be bare anyway (but not that much). I think the advantage of having 4k games added to the db largely outweighs the downside of having wrong release dates and wrong romanization. 4k is 12% of the current amount of VN in the db right now. It's a loooot.

However, we need to be more cautious than just adding what was proposed, because of the amount that will be added.
First, how do you romanize the information?
Could it be possible to give those additions a special status like a need for manual review? It's still a huge task but it's wholly different than adding those entries from scratch. If it's about reviewing titles, if the game fits and if the release dates are not too far fetched from the truth, it's feasible.

What you need is, first, to crosscheck the information with This website has a ノベルゲーム tag with a ridiculous amount of games under it btw.

Then import:
-original title
-we need a way to romanize this title [NEED REVIEWING]
-cover: second screenshot (Freem!), first (NovelGame)
-time: プレイ時間 and 分/時間 (NovelGame has a special field for that)
-age rating: [Content Rating] (Freem!)
-release date: need crosschecking (!important) [NEED REVIEWING]. [Registered] on Freem!. However, NovelGame appears to be superior to release dates or anything too remotely informational. They do have a twitter account that automate the announcements: link. Yes, this becomes complicated
-platforms: [OS] (Freem!), big buttons (NovelGame): many games are available for direct play in the browser thanks to tyranocrap
-engine: I believe any game there with a browser version is bound to use tyranocrap. Freem! often uses 制作ツール but that will need to be recognized and not be added as is. I don't think they use a lot of different engines.
-reso: I guess you could find the reso by loading the browser versions but that looks like a big challenge
-external links: easy
-producers: has to be created separately but feasible

We should allow the automatic fetching of screenshots with the wrong size for those entries, just for the sake of making them sexier (screenshots tell you a lot when it comes to doujinge).
#808 by butterflygrrl
2021-10-22 at 22:55
< report >Sometimes the freem screenshots are REALLY off, though, and if you automatically add completely-wrong screenshots then they won't be obvious as "games without screenshots" to be added by anyone else.

I pretty much only grab freem games with english titles or easy kana because I have no idea how to romanise correctly.
#809 by blahblah35
2021-10-22 at 22:57
< report >RPG Maker game can also be used in browser, but it's true that it's often Tyranocrap.

I didn't fetch the screenshot because they were in the wrong format, but it's feasable yes. Cross validation with NovelGame is doable I think.

I used a python package for romanization, but it doesn't support wapuro and only hepburn. It indeed needs to be checked manually. Same for romanization of the author's name.

If somebody is curious, I uploaded everything on github : link
#810 by Ileca
2021-10-22 at 23:58
< report >I know those screenshots are off but I think they would be beneficial anyway because they tell a lot about the content of games you don't especially want to check yourself. Let's be honest, most of them are crapwares and the only way to check if they might not be is by checking first if they are visually appealing to you.
How many screenshots will be added anyway compared to how many will be replaced on top of having them all? A significant difference? A warning could be added on top of this section if necessary, calling for contribution.

I checked the romanization and there is a lot of work to do. It doesn't even match vndb's capitalization rules (listing particles manually shouldn't be too hard). I guess you could make the titles better with tweaks such as converting wo to o, handling honorifics with dashes, and obvious stuff like that.
You also need to convert your data into vndb's format such as EVERYONE being all-age but I don't know if Yorhel just want the raw data and filter everything himself.
#811 by Ezezin
2021-10-23 at 15:48
< report >Should I fill the developer/staff information if said person is a minor? Or even create an entry in the first place?
#812 by historyeraser
2021-10-23 at 15:52
< report >I don't see how that would be invading their privacy or whatever since staff db pages only give basic info like links to social media. The only way to invade a staff's privacy is like, posting their dox in the description or something.
#813 by Ezezin
2021-10-23 at 15:59
< report >The problem is that this person posted their personal information in their website and social media. Usually I don't have a problem with that and just add those links since most developers are adults (and I would like to think they know what they are doing).
But this is the first time I encountered something like this.
#814 by historyeraser
2021-10-23 at 16:05
< report >Who is this person? It would be good to know what exactly was posted on there
#815 by gvbn
2021-10-23 at 16:35
< report >If they're old enough to have a social media account (13+) then I don't see why not.

Kids have been making free games since forever. Before the internet was a thing, kids would include their full names, home addresses and family phone numbers on the title screens of their games. Sites hosting said games don't really seem to care. Not that the info is particularly up-to-date anymore.
#816 by Ezezin
2021-10-23 at 16:38
< report >Basically: Age, sex, gender, birthday, ethnicity, sexual orientation, highschool and (possibly) real name.Last modified on 2021-10-23 at 16:41
#817 by historyeraser
2021-10-23 at 16:48
< report >Most of that is unneeded anyways. It doesn't inform the users about info regarding their VN's or whatever. Just add their name and gender and leave it at that.
#818 by historyeraser
2021-10-24 at 02:01
< report >What sexual position is depicted here?
#819 by aptx-4869
2021-10-25 at 00:07
< report >#818 standing link

#806 I don't know much about infinity's situation but if it was made to be merged then sure... just add it as a partial release along with all other releases that are merged... I just assumed the opposite since the name change from infinity to never7 makes it seem like some different game
#820 by slashslayer
2021-10-25 at 01:42
< report >well, as someone who has played the novel i think that it's a case that perfectly fits your criteria(specially considering that the incomplete releases were completely forgotten after the first Never7 release anyway), so i think there are no objections coming from anyone here for the simple merging
#821 by Ezezin
2021-10-25 at 07:57
< report >#819 It is not Standing Sex position. Both partners need to have their torso upright for it to be applicable, and that is not optional: "[...] they all involve at least one participant standing on their feet, and both participants with their torso upright."

#818 I was thinking on Butterfly, the description doesn't specify that the receiving partner must be on a surface, and the penetrating parting has their torso upright.Last modified on 2021-10-25 at 14:34
#822 by beliar
2021-10-25 at 18:05
< report >@ezezin: That's indeed Butterfly. I would have said Tominagi, which is a form of Butterfly, but I have noticed the description talks about the penetrating partner "kneeling". Didn't think that was a requirement for Tominagi, but oh well...
#823 by aptx-4869
2021-10-25 at 22:17
< report >it is butterfly but I didn't find it in the tags so I took the closest which is standing... if we're looking for a tag tho
#824 by Ezezin
2021-10-26 at 08:26
< report >You shouldn't use tags for "it's close enough" situations. There are already lots of misstagged VNs and characters because of this. Or it applies, or it doesn't.
#825 by Ezezin
2021-10-27 at 12:06
< report >Should staff entries be removed if they only participated in a demo/trial version and not in the full release? v27919.24