The how to edit thread

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#851 by Latnemurtsni
2021-11-16 at 16:22
< report >If a description is pulled directly from a source (e.g. 'taken from Mangagamer), is it correct to do a "clean up" like this? link
#852 by NaioHoras
2021-11-16 at 16:32
< report >yes. just change the citation into [Modified from Mangagemer] as clarifier.
#853 by Ninius
2021-11-16 at 18:35
< report >I noticed the option where you put a release as trial/partial/complete is missing (when editing/adding a release)? Or am I just blind? I think it used to be above the age rating options.
#854 by beliar
2021-11-16 at 18:59
< report >Now it's down below, in "Database relations". Now it also conveniently allows to set a completion indicator separately for every VN, if there are multiple attached to a release.
#855 by trickzzter
2021-11-16 at 19:41
< report >Yes, it's a very convenient. Because of this feature something like this became possible: r58105.8
#856 by Ninius
2021-11-17 at 22:10
< report >Why did Beliar put Junpei as main character for VLR? I don't remember him ever even appearing in it except as Tenmyouji which is already there as a character.Last modified on 2021-11-17 at 22:10
#857 by beliar
2021-11-17 at 22:22
< report >Well, maybe I made a mistake. Should Tenmyouji be an instance in that case? Oh, well, I'll leave for someone who knows the game better to decide that.
#858 by Ninius
2021-11-17 at 22:23
< report >Tenmyouji is already as an instance of Junpei there, silly :D
#859 by tester
2021-11-26 at 07:04
< report >Some problem with editing has been occurred with capitalization of transliterated titles, which are not entirely uppercase and lowercase characters, yet they are capitalized by foreign rules, such as this one (and that's the issue).

Do all titles ought to be capitalized by English rules after transliteration or original uppercase/lowercases shall remain? (If it's not exception).

In first case correct name of that title would be
"Moja nepylnaja podrabotka na sklade zabytykh veshchej v metro goroda-millionnika"
and in second
"Moja Nepylnaja Podrabotka na Sklade Zabytykh Veshchej v Metro Goroda-Millionnika".

Edit: actually, not "zabytykh", but "zabytyh", and not "veshchej", but "veschej".Last modified on 2021-11-26 at 08:03
#860 by Aresia
2021-11-26 at 07:36
< report >I think it should always be whatever it is the official developer/publisher put out. They're the one who made it, so I think we should respect that.

Edit: Wait, I guess that's against the DB rule is it? Well, that was just my opinion.Last modified on 2021-11-26 at 07:39
#861 by NaioHoras
2021-11-26 at 07:50
< report >I believe that should not be the case. the reason why scripts such as Japanese or Korean follow English capitalization rule in this site should be because they don't have a strict or even any capitalization rule in their original scripts.

meanwhile in Russian (or perhaps Cyrilic scripts in general), they already have capitalization rule in their original script, so I don't see why we need to follow the English capitalization rule, the foreign one. so I'm in agreement with Tester's edit here.Last modified on 2021-11-26 at 07:51
#862 by Yorhel
2021-11-26 at 22:06
< report >I can offer some historical details as to why that capitalization rule came into existence:
- Japanese titles that are originally using the latin alphabet (i.e. not romanized) sometimes had weird and nonsensical capitalization, the rule was primarily intended to make the listings look less messy. I don't remember any examples at the moment. Anyone? :/
- Additionally, a long long time ago, titles used to be sorted in asciibetical order, so lowercase titles were sorted after uppercase ones. This is totally irrelevant nowadays, VNDB-chan has been taught how to sort properly.
- The rule used to apply to all entries, but was later scaled down to only apply to VN entries.

I don't feel too strongly about the capitalization rule, so unless we can find some of those nonsensical examples I'm fine with abolishing it altogether for not-romanized-from-CJK titles.Last modified on 2021-11-26 at 22:29
#863 by slashslayer
2021-11-26 at 23:31
< report >
- Japanese titles that are originally using the latin alphabet (i.e. not romanized) sometimes had weird and nonsensical capitalization, the rule was primarily intended to make the listings look less messy. I don't remember any examples at the moment. Anyone? :/
#864 by NaioHoras
2021-11-27 at 00:55
< report >the only upside I can think with abolishing the caps rule is that we would not need to think about word play and the likes, so we can prevent cases like this v27519.34, where the word play only noticed long after the entry was added. moreover, I'm not sure how to treat this one v32831.3 with the current rule, where the title is the long for its abbreviation "SCHEME"

for not-romanized-from-CJK
have you forgotten that we have other scripts here?
I'll put r81387 as example. Arabic does not have any capitalization rule in its original script. however, it does have it when it is romanized link. thus it should follow their caps rule.

honestly, abolishing it will only make the db very messy, and making it too strict is also not a good idea. the current system is already fine as it is positioned in the middle and doesn't cause too much problem. hell, how many edit wars we see in a month caused by capitalization rule?
some clarification in the guideline is enough. "if the title was transcribed with from scripts does not have any capitalization rule, then they should follow English capitalization rule.

but if you want it to be more lax, we can make it like this "if the title was transcribed with from scripts that do not have any capitalization rule, then they should follow English capitalization rule. If a word is already in latin, then spell as it is"
that way, we can be lower the potential of we missing the word plays in titles. it will make some word stands out in the middle of the sentence r84139 r59413, but that should not be too big a problem.
and if no one minds title like ChäoS;HEAd NoAH, that is...
#865 by trickzzter
2021-11-27 at 03:16
< report >Transliteration from Russian is not really Russian anymore, so it doesn't necessary have to follow Russian rules. But I'm fine with either variant, as long as we follow common rules.

If we keep the original capitalization, then we should keep it for all titles, such as ChäoS;HEAd NoAH and so on. As for the the titles that were transliterated from languages that have no capitalization in the fist place, then we should keep them capitalized by English rules.Last modified on 2021-11-27 at 03:17
#866 by Yorhel
2021-11-27 at 07:34
< report >Eh yeah, not-romanized-from-languages-with-capitalization of course, forgot there were more languages like that beyond CJK.

This is a case of not using artwork to infer title capitalization; the three places I checked (EGS, PlayAsia & link) all have it written as "CHAOS;HEAD NOAH" in actual text forms, so that's more likely the correct (but still ugly) answer of official capitalization.
I admit having the entire SciAdv series in all-caps might look rather ugly.

Evidently we are already not following the capitalization rules for their respective VN entries, so that's a point towards adjusting the guidelines.

More examples? :D
#867 by tester
2021-11-27 at 07:50
< report >
Transliteration from Russian is not really Russian anymore, so it doesn't necessary have to follow Russian rules

> Maybe, but, firstly, there are examples of transliterating Russian titles into English (not translating, do note), that retain Russian capitalization rule (see this guideline). For example (from there), "Izdatelʹstvo detskoy literatury" (from "Издательство детской литературы").
> Secondly. There is quite big amount of Russian titles, transliterated while retaining Russian capitalization rules in the database already. See a small fraction of the big pool of examples here, there, and over there. Basically, it's already close to be an established practice. If we to change it to English rules instead, we'd need to change all these titles. Do note, first, that not all titles in Russian are capitalized correctly. And, second, that many of Russians, using the database, does not understand meaning of "Original title" and "Title name (romaji)" in the releases, they think these are for game title instead. So there would be more release titles, if we to dig in, that need to be changed.Last modified on 2021-11-27 at 07:56
#868 by trickzzter
2021-11-27 at 08:00
< report >More examples:
2ECONDS TO STΔRLIVHT: Forever My Diamond
Totsugeki! Ningen Sensha Alter - とつげき!人間戦車 ALTeR
AftLife -Shoujo to Neko to, Ushinawareta Sekai-
NOeSIS ~Uso o Tsuita Kioku no Monogatari~
#869 by NaioHoras
2021-11-27 at 08:29
< report >browsed my edit history got some: r84657 r8460 r19179 r81448
link (I honestly don't know what NOeSIS means so I stayed out of it)

nothing's too crazy.

P.S. is there a query to search through a user's edit notes? I'm tired of clicking 'next' :D
#870 by trickzzter
2021-11-27 at 09:09
< report >More weird titles:
XOXO Droplets
Moe Moe Nazi Shoujo Goeppels-chan - Genius! NAZI-GIRL GoePPels-Chan
Re: LieF ~Shin'ainaru Anata e~
IxSHE Tell
Death End Re;Quest - Death end re;Quest

We can't even properly capitalize some of them, especially something like "2ECONDS TO STΔRLIVHT"Last modified on 2021-11-27 at 09:12
#871 by Ileca
2021-11-27 at 12:31
< report >Sorry but I don't understand what the issue is.
Some languages have "capitalization rule in their original script"? Like... English, French, German and pretty much every languages? Like... capitalize the first letter of every sentence and proper nouns? Is that what makes Russian special? Or are you telling me that Russian once romanized is case sensitive?
If not, we are not romanizing *sentences* but *titles*. You pretty much decide the way you want to capitalize as long as you highlight the fact that this is a title/reference. Nobody cares about how you capitalize movies or books. In French, you have tricky rules for titles but nobody follows them, especially on the web. I checked my library and I have all the flavors you could imagine, even everything in lower case!!
I don't see the problem with having chosen an arbitrary way of doing it and enforcing it that way for everybody (imagine having to manage that for every language?). In the end, to me, it's a stylization thing.
I doubt Russians even care about how the romanization of titles is capitalized. I don't see Tester linking to rules for titles either...

I mean, I could be convinced to have to follow rules for capitalizing TITLES in every languages but that's not what I see here. Does Russian even have such specific rule?

PS: here are the rules for capitalization of titles in French if you want to have fun: link (section 7).
#872 by trickzzter
2021-11-27 at 12:56
< report >@Ileca We (Russians) have capitalization rules. We capitalize only the 1st word of the title, the 1st words of sub-titles, and proper nous. All the other words should be lower cased. For example we write "Война и мир", and not "Война и Мир". link

But I don't think that we should follow the rules of every language just because some of them use different rules. It'll be a pain. That we need is a common rules for all titles, regardless of original language. If we keep the original writing then we should keep them for all titles.
#873 by beliar
2021-11-27 at 12:59
< report >I agree with Trickzzter. It would be a pain, and frankly very "wild west" to allow many different capitalization rules. I think we should stick with what works for us - that is using English capitalization rules for the main VN title where applicable. It makes the list of VNs look more aesthetic than if we allowed different capitalizations.
#874 by trickzzter
2021-11-27 at 13:03
< report >Yes, I'd prefer to keep the rules used in English. For better look and consistency.
#875 by NaioHoras
2021-11-27 at 13:42
< report >romanized arabic have a strict rule in both sentence and title. one of the thing to bear in mind you should not ever write "ال" (al) with lower case, and they do have reason to be in lower case: the "a" is silent. it's only there to represent the letter "alif".
another one is بن 'ibn' (or bin in some places), which is a noun meaning "Son of", but they with the same reason as 'al', plus they used so often when refering to people's name. its counterpart "bin" is also in lowercase to keep things consistent.

the upmost reason I suggested that title should follow its capitalization rule in their original script is that so that the word would not lose its purpose, and generalizing capitalization rule would just bastardize it. hell, being a prescriptivist and just follow whatever a dev throws as a title is still a better rule.

you probably gonna say "but, there are no many VNs that have arabic vn", and welp... can't say anything to that. but remember: there are a lot of other scripts in the world and most likely have its own meaningful capitalization rule that we don't know.

It'll be a pain
bruh, those who add a vn entry will most likely native or someone have knowledge about the language (or some guy in heat). pretty sure the only one who care about arabic vn and release speaks the language themeselves. generalizing it just because we are a lazy-ass is very wrong in so many ways -,-Last modified on 2021-11-27 at 13:55