|#1 by thajunk|
2017-01-02 at 03:10
|In this thread I'm going to lay down my understanding of what happened at certain points. I would appreciate it if someone would correct me if Im wrong. I enjoyed this VN alot more than I thought I would at first. After reading the first route I pretty much shelved it for a bit out of boredom. The remainder routes more than made up for it's initial slow start. |
Full Himawari Spoilers Ahead
So I enjoyed asukas route, a big less than Aqua's route but it was still fine. The ending with Cosmos confused me, but I figured everything would be clear after the side stories.
And then of course, the game drops this whole load of aliens on you. Not just any aliens, but magical fucking mind absorbing aliens. I felt this to be a hugely unneccessary twist delivered for no reason other than pure shock value.
The only way this really fits into the larger story would be when Aoi loses her memories weeks before her death, and I guess with cosmos at the end of asuka's route, but I guess I was expecting this to be some revelation and it fell completely flat. Kinda of killed my mood after rading Asuka's route to be honest.
So the way I understand it, Amamiya Momiji was Daigo's wife and gave birth to Cosmos, and because of only daughters receiving DNA or RNA or whatever only she and not Amamiya Ginga are infected with the Lunar Virus. Once again this twist provides nothing to the story concerning how minor of a character Cosmos is in the story. However this twist relies on Hinata Souichiro being silly enough to believe that taking out the silver ball from momiji somehow would remove her virus? I don't understand why he wouldn't have added her to the list of the DAN080 passengers.
We are supposed to assume that he just overlooked her and that doesn't sit right with me at all.
Secondly, during the bad ending where Aqua kills Youichi for touching Aries... why? Why the hell does she do it? All Youichi does is grab her hand, that should not cause Aqua to kill him at that point in time... She shouldn't have realized that Youichi was a carrier of the Lunar Virus at that point either, so that shouldn't have affected her actions... Was it really as simple as her being protective of Aries that made her kill for the first time? (directly kill at least)
That's all i can think of right now.
While I hated the first route, I enjoyed most of my time with Himawari in general.
BTW I created a GD because the other topics had a more specfic focus, while I want ramblings and such in this topic.
|#2 by thajunk|
2017-01-02 at 03:23
|Recently read that the Cosmos thing was because of a sequel setup that never went through... in that case it makes a bit more sense now. |
I guess that means I would need to read the fandisc to make sense of it... sigh...
|#3 by soketsu|
2017-01-02 at 07:48
|There were no aliens. Just mitochondrion's alien-like attributes. It's not for shocking the reader or whatever. It is a real-life scientific theory that probably caught the interest of the author of Himawari that he packed it in along the storyline.|
Mind-absorbing eh~ We're talking about "SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED" virus, not aliens. Yeah virus like that of rabies that affects a person's gray matter. And it's not mind absorption but memory copier. The person whose mind is being copied by the virus get incredibly slowed down during the process that it causes change in behavior and temporary memory loss. Same thing happen to your PC when a worm simultaneously copy/duplicates huge files. Wait! That's a spoiler.
That aside. Pretty interesting VN you got there early in the year. Congrats for the nice startup!
|#4 by thajunk|
2017-01-02 at 08:19
At the end of Asuka's route Cosmos is talking about being an enemy of mankind. And did you remember the part where Aoi remembers flying through space for millions of years?
They are pretty much parasitic aliens lacking a real body, but aliens none the less. I would have agreed with you if it wasn't for the part in Kagerou where Momiji's consciousness is seemingly completely taken over by a different entity for a short time (during interlude 3).
That is WAY above the memory swapping scope of these things that the main game alluded to.
And I specified mind absorption because Cosmos, at the end of Asuka's route implies that if Youichi recognized her feelings then she might have not been taken over by the alien virus.
Sigh... just talking about this makes me sad
|#5 by narcosis|
2017-01-02 at 15:43
|Aqua doesn't kill Youichi in that bad end; neither Aries. It's actually Aoi - or more or less - a vision of her past self, living both inside Youichi's memories and Aries. Due to shock, he just falls from the roof and most propably breaks his neck.|
If you paid close attention to the story, you'll understand Aries actually had a split personality, due to Aoi's memories; it's also the reason why she was so obsessed with trying to fulfill her obligation to make both Youichi and Aoi happy, which can be seen in another bad end - a part of the so called "Aries' route" within Aqua's. As it's later revealed, she fails with that after all, which can be seen in the finale from the TIPS section; Youichi apparently knew it was Aries all along and didn't had a reason to remain in that illussionary world of theirs any longer; Aoi was already in the past and Aries was still there with him - the only thing, that really did matter.
Both side stories, as well as Aqua After reveal more important information, but it's still - more or less - left up to personal interpretation.Last modified on 2017-01-02 at 15:44
|#6 by thajunk|
2017-01-03 at 03:55
|I agree that things can be left to personal interpretation, but...|
curious to know exactly where you got the idea that Aries has split personalities? From my understanding the story is clear that she IS Aries, she just has Aoi's memories, and in that "Hinata Aoi" ending she is trying to become Aoi.
Saying split personality implies that sometimes Aries is/becomes Aoi, but that switch doesnt happen at all in the story as far as I know.
And the entire point of that particular ending was that Aries was not Aoi and couldn't even pretend.
Admittedly I haven't read the fandisc.
In the bad ending I was talking about previously, what would be the motivation for Aoi killing Youichi at that particular time?
Right now from your explanation I think it went like this...
Youichi touches Aries to find out whats on her wrist
Youichi gains sudden rememberance of Aoi
Youichi gets shocked, falls off roof and dies
If that is true, why the hell did this not happen any other time he touched Aries? Why only that particular time?
My current interpretation of that particular scene makes it feel awfully convenient and poorly written to be honest.
Which is in stark contrast to the later routes. Hopefully it's wrong.
|#7 by whitetragedy|
2017-01-06 at 00:31
" However this twist relies on Hinata Souichiro being silly enough to believe that taking out the silver ball from momiji somehow would remove her virus? I don't understand why he wouldn't have added her to the list of the DAN080 passengers "
Yeah, there's a lot of things not making sense about this.
1. Is the artificial virus from the silver ball actually potent, can it spread? They made this virus from the ball that crashed into earth.
2. Which Virus is momiji actually infected by? Because keep in mind that Daigo was on the ship when the moon Virus spread around (I think? or he may have gotten it from the moon).
3. Does the virus not effect males? I guess not, because Youichi didn't get his mind taken over
But I think everything can be solved by saying that Souichiro is not omnipotent.
1. The artificial virus was probably not potent enough for it to be passed down, or else what would Souichiro do to the hundred thousands of other people who also have the silver ball. (Also because Cosmos said they almost got wiped out from the spaceplane crash)
2. Souichiro only thought about the memory erasing part of the virus, but he never found out about that the virus can also take over the mind - like with Aoi
3. The biggest reason he didn't include Momiji was probably because he thought Daigo wasn't infected for some reason.
4. Also it's interesting to note that Youichi got infected after Aoi came back from the Mansion, because we learned that Aoi got her memory back a few hours before she boarded the spaceplane = Virus took over her mind -> fucked Youichi -> left the virus. It's ironic that in 2050 the girls thought Aoi's memory came back b/c of Youichi.
|#8 by thajunk|
2017-01-06 at 04:47
|I probably should have labeled this whole thread spoilers... whoops |
The artificialng ball is made to replicate the virus or something, not sure, but It does spread the virus, thats why Souichiro needed to get the list of infectees from him.
I don't think Daigo gave the lunar virus to momiji, I thought she already had it from whenever they implemented the ball into her... you may be right. I thought he lost memories due to trauma of Akari being dead. His memory loss is more similar to Youichi; actively blocking out memories or realizations rather than induced by the lunar virus.
I don't think it's explicitly stated that the virus does or does not affect males, The problem is what Cosmos says at the end of Asuka route, something like if Youichi loved her 5 years ago she wouldn't have been taken over, which introduces some weird power of will BS into the story.
Does the virus actually not affect males or is it just because Youichi has a strong will?
For example, we know that Souichiro had it and his wife, but we hear no stories about either of them losing their memories. Why? Fuck if I know.
The Souichiro is not smart enough thing is what irks me because the whole game tries to push you towards thinking maybe Saiongi Akira is the evil guy behind everything pushing the strings, and then its like haha it's actually your dad! Hes the "evil" mastermind!
But then when the game says stuff like "Souichiro was confident he found the vector for the Lunar Virus", and then either ignores that Daigo passed it to Momiji or that Momiji has had a big silver ball of the virus stuck in her for years...
It seems too silly to be the reason for all of Souichiro's gruesome work to be undone.
|#9 by bardock123|
2017-01-06 at 16:39
|Regarding the end of Asuka's route|
So did Asuka die? Got the mini epilogue and it seems like she isn't there anymore.Last modified on 2017-01-06 at 16:40
|#10 by thajunk|
2017-01-06 at 17:05
|My interpretation is that because she isn't in the epilogue it is implied that she ded.|
|#11 by bardock123|
2017-01-06 at 17:09
|RIP best girl, its rare to see an older female and one that smokes in a VN.|
|#12 by bardock123|
2017-01-06 at 23:58
|Dumb question here but does the space plane launch from space or from the Earth? The one that (spoiler) killed those 517 ppl(/spoiler)|
|#13 by narcosis|
2017-01-07 at 00:37
|It launches from earth and crashes a couple minutes later after liftoff due to the bug in Aries' flight code, purposefully introduced by Souichirou.|
It's clearly mentioned Daigo gets infected during the virus release incident on Himawari, along with the majority of the station staff.
Regarding Asuka, she isn't dead. Aqua After, which starts directly after Aqua's route ending clearly shows she's still alive and kicking. She isn't dead in her own ending, either.Last modified on 2017-01-07 at 00:37
|#14 by bardock123|
2017-01-07 at 01:26
|@iced Regarding Asuka, do you have any proof of that? Aqua's story takes place only a year after the original game. So her being alive makes sense but for her own ending it seems like she died after the 5 years had past unless I missed something[\spoiler]|
|#15 by bardock123|
2017-01-08 at 04:29
|About the Hinata Aoiending|
That was way more emotional then I thought it would be, also it seems everyone on the planet is gone and there is a bunch of red sunflowers everywhere. Anyone have an explanation for that?Last modified on 2017-01-08 at 04:30
|#16 by thajunk|
2017-01-08 at 17:23
|@bardock123, why are you in a spoiler filled thread if you haven't finished the game yet?|
You need to look for the side stories and the tips section of the game.
and @iced, also want to know why you think
Asuka isn't dead in her own ending.
Haven't read Aqua after but unless that implies that Asuka disease can get treated or something...
|#17 by whitetragedy|
2017-01-09 at 02:13
The reason Souichiro needed to get the list of infectees from him is because he was looking for the list of scientists that left the Himawari to join the other group. In the first side story we are told that a few thousand people around the world had those metal balls, those people wouldn't fit into the space shuttle.
|#18 by bardock123|
2017-01-09 at 02:25
|@thajunk Oh hush, I've seen it all and I just want some more thoughts on certain parts in the story.|
|#19 by thajunk|
2017-01-09 at 02:43
the sunflowers being red are just some visual fuckery to represent that he is in a "dream" state almost, that why they change back to normal color when you get the rest of the ending.
Every one on the planet isn't gone, they are just inside a big sunflower field.
@whitetragedy Hmm I think you are right, now i remember the balls were fakes or something. I thought Souichiro grand speech he was giving to one of the maid girls were going to imply that it was pumping them full of lunar virus. But idk
|#20 by bardock123|
2017-01-09 at 04:22
|@thajunk I get why they switched the colors but is the whole world covered with sunflowers now? Or just Miyuara? I thought that only Yoichi and Aries moved to the hill where they planted all the sunflowers and isolated themselves from the rest of the world|
|#21 by thajunk|
2017-01-09 at 18:12
|@bardock123 You are overthinking things, it's just a regular sunflower field. |
I remember when they are catching a train out of Miyaura they mention passing by a big sunflower field in the Asuka route.
|#22 by narcosis|
2017-01-09 at 21:48
Metaphor, you know what that means? It's not really revelant, whether it happens in reality, or remains just a daydream of Youichi or Aries. What really matters is the message it conveys.
|#23 by bardock123|
2017-01-10 at 03:08
|@iced Boi I'm still waiting on you to explain why you think Asuka is alive at the end of the epilogue|
|#24 by behappyeveryday|
2017-01-11 at 15:18
|@thajunk "So the way I understand it, Amamiya Momiji was Daigo's wife and gave birth to Cosmos, and because of only daughters receiving DNA or RNA or whatever only she and not Amamiya Ginga are infected with the Lunar Virus. " Your understanding is wrong. In truth Daigo was infected by Akari, in some moment of the story (after birth of Ginga and before birth of Cosmos) they have sex, then he will infect Momiji and so she will go crazy because of that. This is stated in fandisc.|
@ice About Daigo you are wrong, in Aqua After clearly stated that he wasn't among infected on Himawari and instead get virus through "close contact" with Akari.
Overall though I'm unsatisfied with the way relationships between Akira, Daigo, Akari and Momiji were explained, this still leave some plot holes. I think author changed original idea that he have while writing Aries' and 2048 routes.Last modified on 2017-01-12 at 13:44
|#25 by bardock123|
2017-01-11 at 21:21
|Well Aqua After is a fandisc... So it can be ignored. There relationship makes more sense without it anyway.|
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