Beat Heaven's Feel day before yesterday

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#1 by xero95
2017-01-16 at 14:42
< report >Would you guys say I should read this right after as a sequel sequel, or can I take a break and start enjoying some of the spin off material? Only reason I ask is because I wanted to get through everything before Fate/Extella came out, already played CC but didn't see anything important to Extella

Already watched Fate/Zero(after Heaven's Feel of course cuz I'm not some pleb :P) started to watch that Magical Girl Illya show because I needed some comedy in my life after watching Fate/Zero right after finishing Heaven's Feel and I noticed red head chick comes up from this game. Along with the whole Grand Order thing which I'm bummed won't ever come out here.....would you say it's alright to take a break and is it smaller then Fate/Stay Night, I clocked in 9 days 52mins and 12 seconds for finishing the game xD
#2 by drakon9
2017-01-16 at 15:35
< report >You can take a break and enjoy it afterwards [you can read some spin material in between].

As you say Heaven's Feel was VERY dark. Nasu says so himself in interviews. It's much darker than his previous works [fate and UBW], that's why he wanted to give us a happier mood for the next work/route [ataraxia].
He also says he wants to convey one part of reality each time. According to him Fate-UBW is the normal one, HF is the dark side and Ataraxia is the happier/less dark side.

For your lenght question, Ataraxia is over 2/3 of the original game.

Also, it isn't a sequel sequel. The original game has almost 50 endings, all of them canon. A true sequel to all of them can't exist. It's more like another route. Because of certain circumstances [that Nasu will reveal little by little] there are characters that come from previous routes, but the setting itself is new. It is still a new route, not a sequel [because otherwise you're killing the endings of the original game].
Its true ending is the last scene/epilogue of the game, which happens outside of the time loop [Nasu wrote it and made sure to let us know it happens outside of the time loop].

According to Takeuchi there is a setting about this happening as a sequel to the original game, but it isn't that important [even though he adds the player can interpret it that way]Last modified on 2017-01-18 at 18:35
#3 by formis
2017-02-09 at 17:48
< report >@drakon9 By over 50 endings of the original game you mean all the legitimate endings + tiger dojo endings?

Also, speaking of spin-offs is there any comprehensive guide to the entirety of the Fate series (or better yet the entire Nasuverse)? You can in theory find everything on the TYPE-MOON wiki, but it's not exactly organized.
#4 by encrypted12345
2017-02-10 at 03:54
< report >Feel free to take a break. F/HA isn't really relevant to anything other than the EX episode of Carnival Phantasm. And Illya, maybe, but it's not that important.

Most important thing to Fate/Extella is Fate/Extra. I'd argue you don't need the first Fate/Stay Night to enjoy Fate/Extra, but the former is a much better starting point to the Fate Franchise.

By the way, Tsukihima and Kara No Kyoukai are referenced in Fate/Extra, but not Fate/Extella.

@3 Maybe in the Beast's lair. That's a Type-MOON dedicated forum.
#5 by drakon9
2017-02-10 at 12:14
< report >@formis

Yeah, I meant all endings. Even though the author considers one ending at the end of each route to be the true ending, the other endings are still canon [bad, normal, good].
Tiger dojo [Illya and Taiga giving you advice] is a way to help you beat the game. As the warning says, you can skip it. That warning doesn't apply to the game endings.

Regarding the forum, Reddit is decent as well.

@xero95

Adding to what I had said before, Fate Hollow Ataraxia also tells you the backstory of some important characters. Just in case it also influences your decision of when to read it.Last modified on 2017-02-10 at 12:16
#6 by gabezhul
2017-02-10 at 13:18
< report >I don't know where this misconception stems from, but no, not all endings of FSN are "canon". If something is canonical, it means that future installments of the series are based on that scenario. For example, none of the endings of Eien no Aselia were canonical until the sequel came out. Seinarukana then introduced Euphoria, which told us that Yuuto had a child with Aselia, therefore making her ending the canon one.

Works in the Nasuverse explicitly have no "canon" endings (at least when there are multiple endings present), as even the only real "sequel" in the verse, Metly Blood, was based on a route that didn't even exist in Tsukihime.

So no, not all endings are canon. As a matter of fact, none of them are. They are all valid, individual endings the same way as any other ending in a visual novel would be, and some of them have extra materials linked to them in later works, just like how every heroine in Majikoi have their separate route and about two after-stories each, but in the end each individual route and ending stands on its own, and none of them are canonical as far as the whole verse is concerned.

This is actually the main reason why it's so hard for fans to put together a canonincal timeline for the Nasuverse. Hell, I am not even sure Nasu can do it without invoking something like "Oh yeah, Tsukihime's canon ending is Satsuki and Fate/Stay Night's canonical ending is Ilya. Figure it out."
#7 by drakon9
2017-02-10 at 14:09
< report >"So no, not all endings are canon"; "they are all valid"

That's right. Talking as a purist, the canon ending in a visual novel is the official/true ending.

However, for some reason [maybe because the Nasuverse is complex] people in forums use the term "canon" as if it meant "valid" regarding the fate series.
Something like: if it's canon it means Nasu approved it.
That's why I said "all endings are canon", meaning they're all valid as you say.

But yes, I completely agree with you.

"But no, not all endings of FSN are "canon". If something is canonical it means future installments of the series are based on that scenario"

I agree as well. If anything, regarding the original game the true endings for each route would be the official ones [Their epilogues are also quite important: Last episode for fate's true ending and what happens after 2 years for the other 2 true endings]Last modified on 2017-02-10 at 22:51
#8 by formis
2017-02-10 at 18:27
< report >@drakon9
Yeah, by Tiger Dojo endings I meant generaly all the dead/bad endings, not Tiger Dojo itself.

Also, I don't remember Sunny Day (UBW Good ending), but HF Normal ending did have an epilogue that technically tells what happened 1, 2, 3, 4 , 5, ... XX years after the ending all the way to Sakura's last breath.
I'd attribute the "officialness" of the endings to the simple fact that they're called 'true endings', kinda speaks for itself. But yeah, the fate series is in multiverse so anything that can happen is valid.Last modified on 2017-02-10 at 18:29
#9 by drakon9
2017-02-10 at 18:55
< report >Sunny days tells you what happens the next morning for like 10 minutes so it doesn't appear to be an epilogue.
HF normal seems more like an ending imo [It is the only not true ending that appears to tell the future but doesn't say much. The only thing it says is that Sakura gets to live but becomes demented without Shirou. It's like Shirou turning into a toy for all eternity]

The epilogues for the true endings are continuations of some endings from the original game. There is a time skip and it says epilogue:

HF true ending epilogue
Last episose: written by Nasu 2-3 years after the original game as Fate's true epilogue
UBW true epilogue: Written recently. It's a manuscript written by Nasu that was used to animate episode 25 of the anime. It is based on Mimic Rin II from Ataraxia, written 1-2 years after the oriinal game.

Anyways, I just mentioned it because I was talking about future installments. As you say just the fact that Nasu said they're the true endings is the reason they're the official endings.Last modified on 2017-02-10 at 23:01
#10 by formis
2017-02-10 at 22:05
< report >Okay, had to 'Ctrl' through the endings of UBW and HF just to be sure, but the ending part in both HF Normal Ending and Sunny Day is in fact titled 'epilogue', at least in the Realta Nua version translated to English. But I'm just being pedantic now I guess. :D

I still need to finish the 2nd season of UBW anime so I have at least something to look forward to if there's an extended ending directly from Nasu.
#11 by drakon9
2017-02-10 at 22:48
< report >You're right, it says epilogue in both ['m replaying them as well]. For some reason I didn't see that part before [like in last episode or Heaven's Feel True, where it says epilogue].
You're 100% right, there may be more endings where the word "epilogue" appears as well since it shows up for a very short amount of time.
Thanks for telling me XDLast modified on 2017-02-11 at 13:48
#12 by formis
2017-02-11 at 12:47
< report >Well, there's no need for epilogues in bad/dead ends so I think only the 5 intended endings have an epilogue (Fate technically has 2 since the two endings are consecutive, not separate).

But we got quite a bit off topic here so we should probably stop now. :P
#13 by shinn
2017-02-11 at 14:13
< report >Can someone summarise it?
#14 by luckybastard
2017-02-11 at 14:51
< report >There are 7 epilogues for the 5 endings discussed (I'm not gonna talk about the rest of the endings. I won't dscuss Ataraxia either, as I see it the answer provided by Drakon9 in post 2 is good):

- HF normal: One short epilogue after the ending that tells us how much Sakura suffers.

- Sunny Days: What happens the next day after the war.

- Fate true ending: It has 2 epilogues. The one from Fate stay Night and the one Nasu made afterwards as "Last episode" which tells us what happens afterwards.

- UBW true ending: It has 2 epilogues. The one from fate stay night (one month after the war) and the one made aftewards that tells us how Rin and Shirou are doing in the Clock Tower.

- Heaven's Feel True ending: One epilogue 2 years after the war.

Both "last episode" and clock tower epilogues refer to what happens after their respective true endings, giving new useful info. Last episode gives us flashbacks from Fate's true ending and then new content appears with the word "epilogue". It can also happen in other timelines though.
UBW true ending second epilogue is an epilogue because it is the title shared by both the manuscipt Nasu wrote and the episode Ufotable animated.

As Gabehul said, all endings are valid (the dead endings, the bad endings and the normal and good endings). It is the Nasuverse.

That said, the official/canon endings for each route are the endings considered to be "the true endings" by Nasu. There are 3 in the original game and they are the way the author officially ends each route.

Until this point it's all very clear but is there a canon route?

-First option: For some, among these 3 true endings the most canon is Heaven's Feel true ending as Illya says once you complete tiger Tojo.

- Second option: After Last Episode was released, Fate's true end as the official way to end the whole series.

This last part (a canon route) has been debated but there's no clear answer.Last modified on 2017-02-13 at 14:59
#15 by shinn
2017-02-11 at 17:20
< report >Nice, thank you =P

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