Bankrupt VN Companies

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#26 by kiru
2017-03-18 at 22:31
That debt is pretty massive for such a company. How much would you earn from a sold copy? Maybe 4k yen? So they'd need to sell an additional 40k copies of a game. (as in, their most recent one) That's.. not going to happen. Not even the most successful 18+ games really get there as far as I know. Maybe life-time sales over several releases, but..

I think a pretty good result is something like what.. 5k sales? Makes you wonder how that kind of debt came to be.Last modified on 2017-03-18 at 22:32
#27 by abyssaleros
2017-03-18 at 22:37
Drugs, whores and sushi.
#28 by cockblockula
2017-03-18 at 23:46
Well they did try releasing 3 titles in 2016 but their situation didn't improve. Maybe the director wasted all the money on cat girl whores.Last modified on 2017-03-18 at 23:53
#29 by traumatizer
2017-03-19 at 13:58
Honestly it is pretty amazing that an eroge company managed to gather such a gigantic debt.
#30 by rusanon
2017-03-19 at 14:21
Its not gigantic, according to minori, budget of one full-price VN is about 1mUSD, so it just means that last several games they developed failed to earn back the costs, because either they went over-budget or failed to reach sales milestones.
#31 by traumatizer
2017-03-19 at 14:33
Yeah, "gigantic" might not be the right adjective for this now that you brought it up. :P But doesn't the price also depend on how long the VN is?
#32 by kiru
2017-03-19 at 15:44
@30: Minori..

Also I wouldn't be surprised if Minori's latest games aren't having that budget either. And they have financial trouble.

The average VN should really not cost 1mUSD. They don't sell enough for that. Again, a sold copy maybe earn you 4k yen or less. So you'd need to sell 25k copies to break even. Sure there are other things you could earn money with, like figurines or artbooks or whatever, but.. still. A little too much. Heck I'm not even sure if compile-heart Ps4 titles have that budget. And those are obviously way more than just a VN.
#33 by rusanon
2017-03-19 at 17:12
Exact numbers are almost never revealed, but 25k sales is very small number for established brands.
Some known numbers for comparison:
Dorei to no Seikatsu -Teaching Feeling-, short doujin game with almost no text, sold 51000 copies on DlSite.
Steins;Gate 0 sold over 100000 copies during first week of JP release (link). S;G series total sales at that point crossed 1m copies sold point. With Steam launch afterwards, 2m copies total seem realistic.
NekoPara - don't have link and can't be bothered to look-up, but Sayori bragged about at least 100k copies sold at some point.Last modified on 2017-03-19 at 17:14
#34 by herbalnekotea
2017-03-19 at 19:16
Man, i got the feeling the Japanese market's dying from over saturation and those company start to think the west's a solution by doing english translation, what i could say's the Visual Novel market in the west's too much unknow by the otaku community who watch anime and manga and the mainstream gamers hate Visual Novel because of the lack of gameplay. I think if the market don't get much new consummer in the next 2 years, the same think will happen in the west with the 3 giant pumping new title and fruitbat factory and frontwing trying to be 4th and 5th in this new market. Well, i don't know, i get the same feeling has this last year, i started reading physical manga, mostly Yuri and there's a shit tons of Yuri manga pre-order since october on amazon.ca, which last august has only the old dropped localisation, some omnibus compilation and the new Citrus and Netsuzu Trap which exploded that market. I must have at less between 10-20 Yuri manga pre-order when there was like 6 serie last summer localised. If Japanese Otaku market flop (Bluray sale flopping, Eroge company going bankrupt), i don't believe the west will be a safe heaven for too long before we follow.
#35 by kiru
2017-03-19 at 20:20
@33:

25k is NOT a small number. Baldr Heart apparently sold ~11k in the release ~week. Floral Flow Love ~15k.
Only the biggest titles are actually above 25k.

Console titles are different, but that's not something to think about with someone like Lass. They aren't super high tier devs. Like I already wrote, something like 5k sales would be somewhat of a success for a brand like them. (and many many others) Maybe 10k. But 25k is out of their reach, realistically speaking.
Oh and dl-site is a completely different thing altogether. You sometimes have these titles that somehow get suuuuper popular and because they don't cost much, they sell a lot. Very unlikely to happen with commercial releases. (okay, also very unlikely for doujin games, but well..)Last modified on 2017-03-19 at 20:20
#36 by cockblockula
2017-03-19 at 20:43
@34 What western market? Most people pirate games over here or read manga online for free. Most of the revenue they get (even for mainstream titles like Naruto) are from Japan not us.
#37 by clephas
2017-03-19 at 21:40
@30
Minori's VNs have always been 'high-end' projects, so I'm pretty sure you can downgrade development and production costs for lower-end studios significantly (by as much as seventy percent, depending on the ambition of the project and personnel choices).
#38 by herbalnekotea
2017-03-20 at 02:40
@36 Yeah, all my anime and 99% of my VN are pirate, i never read any manga nor scanlation until i ordered on a feel citrus 1-4. I only read physical manga when i am an advocate of digital piracy. My only argument's resell full serie when licensor lost it license to sell the localised title in the next 10 years.Last modified on 2017-03-20 at 02:40
#39 by rusanon
2017-03-20 at 04:28
@35
Source for these numbers? I don't remember Giga ever publishing sales numbers, and "points" some journals publish are not sales, they are limited to retails (missing several major platforms like Amazon and Getchu) and scaled by unknown factor which changes often.

@37
There's not much you could cut w/out incurring wrath of users. Full-price game is expected to have certain number of CGs and certain volume of text, so art and voices, two biggest parts of VN budget, can't be reduced. If you dare to try, you get ABS Knights tier shitstorm, and it will cost you even more to do refunds and compensations.
Art market is ruthless with competition from mobage, to the point when every eroge artist is now drawing shit for them instead their main companies (like Scaji making char for FKG) from time to time, you can't offer them less than mobage companies and expect them to care.
Voice prices are strictly regulated by voice agencies.
#40 by x-rayj
2017-03-25 at 01:42
It sucks that a notable (well, at least I assume Lass is well known) commercial VN company went into bankruptcy.
#41 by traumatizer
2017-03-25 at 09:34
Definitely not bankrupt but PeasSoft has possibly some problems since they couldn't even manage to release the Sextet+ version (which was supposed to be released July 2015, but then it got sent to TBA and later cancelled completely).
#42 by infernoplex
2017-08-07 at 02:32
ChuableSoft, June, this year ... Just one more addition on top of others. Such a shame ... How does localizing VNs from bankrupt companies work? Or perhaps it doesn't work? xD I am guessing there are lots of headaches because of IP-related problems.
#43 by tsukuyomiz
2017-08-07 at 04:18
shame about ChuableSoft. maybe they can make a comeback in the western market?
#44 by infernoplex
2017-08-07 at 12:24
#43 - Hmmm ... not likely, MG is localizing SukiSuki by them but I don't see any potential for ChuableSoft to come back to life even if SukiSuki were to sell good. Though that's just my opinion, I don't really know what would take to save them at this point.
#45 by kiru
2017-08-07 at 14:58
Once bankruptcy is declared, you won't save them. That's just the state of a company, when they can't pay their bills anymore, which essentially translates to a not reasonably payable debt.

Of course, it's not all that easy, there's ways to "abuse" bankruptcy as well and whatnot, but generally speaking the company stops existing and all its assets are sold. I don't know who will have the licenses for the games of Chuable, but whoever that is will be dealing with Mangagamer from now on. How that will make things possibly change I can't say. If the new owner isn't interested in the western market, or wants more from Mangagamer or whatever, the game will probably stop selling here after the initial license period.
#46 by infernoplex
2017-08-07 at 15:15
Yup, that's kind of sad to hear, the new owner might not be interested in the western market at all. Well, I kind of guessed that such a case it would be. Such a shame ...
#47 by kratoscar2008
2017-08-08 at 21:16
Jellyfish? They have two TBA games and one of them is 6 + years in "development".

Maybe Tenco? I don't see any other reason why they seemingly died after the success of Eiyuu Senki.
#48 by kassadin
2017-08-09 at 23:25
No one really cares if garbage eroge companies producing garbage games goes bankrupt. They went bankrupt in the first place because their game are so bad that no one buys them.

You won't see Yuzusoft going bankrupt anytime soon for example. Why? Because they have a competent board that knows to produce great games that the majority of the target audience will love, hence their massive sales.

Yes, no one can compete with Yuzusoft, but really, all companies have to do is release games that will at least sell enough to keep you from going bankrupt. I'm honestly baffled that the directors of bankrupt eroge companies are dumb enough to believe that their garbage games will sell.
#49 by eacil
2017-08-10 at 01:25
I am baffled someone can think pleasing a target audience has something to do with quality. If I am referring to your stupid theory, Winged Cloud is one of the best. Yeah, right.
The day I learnt Yuzusoft was one of the best-selling eroge company, I laughed hard. I had NO IDEA.

@47: their games require a huge amount of time. Eight years between Lovers and Sisters. Their blog was updated this year btw (about figs).
Also, I tend to see Jellyfish as a doujin company which work at its own rhythm without production imperative. Taki Minashika is representative of that, he is still drawing Sisters doujins for the Comiket and Comic 1 and he will most likely work on promised Jellyfish when he will be fed up drawing always the same characters. Well, we will see if they were shit or not during all that time if they go bankrupt!Last modified on 2017-08-10 at 01:31
#50 by kiru
2017-08-10 at 09:38
It's not weird that Yuzusoft sells the most. If you actually play a bunch of VNs, it's quite easy to see why. And I'm not ironic here. If you want to buy one moege out there, and want to make sure you get something for your money, going with Yuzusoft is by far the safest choice you have.

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