Length

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#1 by kiru
2017-03-01 at 11:49
< report >This happened twice now, so I'll just make this topic.

This should be medium length. Why?

-The scriptsize is known from tlwiki: 1.71 mb. This is roughly the same length as many other medium length games (i.e. G-senjou no Maou which has 1.77mb), though it is roughly at the "cut-off" mark. However, it not having voice-acting further speeds things up.

-Out of 56 votes on EGS only 5 needed more than 30 hours.

-Steam numbers are really really bad to use as a base. They include idle time and generally anything not related to length.



Now I know that vndb's length indicators are rather bad (the 10-30 hour category is just way too broad), but this game will, on average, last you below 30 hours. And with officially localized games we probably want to stay accurate and neutral here. (length can be a deciding factor for purchases)
#2 by eacil
2017-03-01 at 12:29
< report >So a script size and arbitrary votes on EGS (as arbitrary as here) are better than a system that, as flawed as it is, actually counts time? I don't idle 2H with my games and reaching a soda takes me 2mn.
Well, I didn't see the length was changed in the middle but I agree with u39083, it was 30-40H, and the reason why I put it back was that I felt that the 10-30H was way underestimated when it took me like 50H. I read faster all the 10-30H _untranslated_ VN I did than this one and it has not even voices.Last modified on 2017-03-01 at 12:31
#3 by kiru
2017-03-01 at 13:46
< report >Yes, script-size is by far the most important factor for length, provided there's no significant gameplay. It IS what you read. It is also incredibly on point with times you'll find for popular VN on vndb, again provided there's not much gameplay.

The votes on EGS are obviously just that: Votes. But if you use EGS a bit, you'll start to understand how these work and can use them pretty well. And you'll also realize that a lot of them are pretty accurate, provided it's about works you read everything of, which this is.
I simply looked at separate votes, and unlike vndb they have many categories to choose from (i.e. 16~20, 21~25, 26~30, 31~35 ..) and only 5 out of over 50 votes for that chose 31-35, nobody higher than that. That does say quite a bit. Most chose 21-25 (21 people).


I only have these arguments, so I can't say much more. That said, you can't really argue against script-size. All you can do is to argue why this game with its script-size is taking longer than games with the same script-size, even without voice-acting. (voice-acting makes things, on average, last longer) Or change a ton of vndb length entries to keep it consistent. Or this is simply an exception. I don't like edit-wars myself.Last modified on 2017-03-01 at 13:48
#4 by bunny1ov3r
2017-03-01 at 19:02
< report >Personally this game took me only 10 hours (with skimming admittedly), but then I play every other game much faster than the stated time here. I guess this is a very subjective matter even with some objective standards (script size). Usually as long as the stated game time is not more than 3-4 times more than my time I don't raise an issue with it, lol.

I think the underlying issue that OP is trying to lay out is that there is a clear difference between time spent reading every single line in the script at a given auto-read speed, and trying to auto-read at that speed but occasional skimming/skipping (or simply that another speed is appropriate for a different VN) because an average VN reader just can't help it. I know that I skimmed a lot during the slower parts because of the slow pacing of this VN. I could imagine also effects to the opposite direction that the lines required a lot of contemplation in order for readers to read on.

Ultimately it is up to the mods to decide whether we should stick to script size * reading speed OR average of readers' reported actual time spent. The latter might have reporting bias and sample bias, while the former might not accurate reflect the specific situations that surround time spent.Last modified on 2017-03-01 at 19:10
#5 by eacil
2017-03-01 at 22:36
< report >What, but I drool-gathered during those parts, hypnotized by the music before remembering I need to read if I want to pass them... no no I wasn't sleeping, I swear!

To me, votes are most of the time based on a feeling the more time spent and feeling is what makes today people insecure about their lives when nothing never happened but is enough of an argument to close the borders. The times are so stretched on vndb because no one can say if he read 26-30 or 31-35 until he has a really monomaniacal schedule and, obviously, it would lead to a Thousand Days' War on every entry of vndb. It can work on EGS because it's a voting system but nothing tell us if they didn't vote like lemmings.

I don't like edit wars myself too and I know how much of a slow reader I am so, each time I edit length, I bring some numbers (for example, by using the automode feature) and thought steam was great for that. I don't think we will reach an understanding so let's put that at 2-10H according to bunny1ov3r.
#6 by lunaterra
2017-03-02 at 00:27
< report >How Long to Beat is a site where people log the lengths of the games they play. There's even a special timer you can turn on when you start up the game and add the time to your already-logged time. I've used it to log times for VNs before (not this one though, since I haven't read it).

Unfortunately, for obscure/niche titles, there's usually not a big sample size. There are only five complete playthroughs of The House in Fata Morgana recorded, ranging from 29h44m to 38h. But the advantage these times have over Steam times is that these are people who specifically log how much time they actually spent with the VN, instead of counting idling as well.

In the end, the length of a VN is somewhat subjective. Personally, I'm usually a fast reader, so my times on VNs are usually on the shorter side. There are probably a few VNs I've marked as "very short" that other people would mark "short." It's clear that this one is on the medium/long borderline (though I'd lean towards long), so I don't think it actually matters too much which option is chosen as long as it doesn't devolve into an edit war. It'd be different if it was a 5-hour VN marked as "very long" or something.
#7 by donkeyskin
2017-03-09 at 22:02
< report >You need at least 30 hours to complete this. I'd understand if someone were to read faster than average and only take around 20 hours.

As eacil said, putting it in 10-30hours length would mean underestimate its length. It took me too 50 hours to complete.
#8 by soulvnovel
2021-01-03 at 12:04
< report >#4 did you actually read the whole game or only till the 1st 2 ending chooses?
#9 by kiru
2021-01-03 at 18:47
< report >I'm still for the length voting.Last modified on 2021-01-03 at 18:48
#10 by soulvnovel
2021-01-06 at 00:06
< report >I read many VN and always keep track using apps how long it takes me (so similar to how steam does). So I can confirm that 30-50 is the most accurate. Someone who skips around should be able in 20 or less. Someone who takes longer to read or just isn't used to will take around 60 hours. The other point is that people won't go out of their way to read everything (so like reloading seeing all ending, checking out extra stage, checking out the prologue story from ending list once all endings have been registered). So if someone did 100%, 40-50 hours in general. 30-40 is just the core story (since people who don't bother with every last option, then to skip now and then when it doesn't seem interesting). Hope this helps as is been almost 4 years since you asked.
#11 by dillpicklely
2021-04-17 at 08:02
< report >I didn’t record the exact play-through time but it took me over the span of a month to complete. If you are able to read it through in less than 30 hours, than you must therefore have superlative vocabulary.
#12 by soulvnovel
2021-04-18 at 20:22
< report >steam reconds so myself and others can tell. I'm pretty sure a lot of them failed miserably by not making it past chapter 4

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