VNDB Suggestions!

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#1076 by Ezezin
2021-11-17 at 01:47
< report >A bit late, but what npzmzfg said could be useful information to have (lots of technical information not found on other websites or here and a bunch of other links)... if it weren't for the problem that PC Gaming Wiki tends to deal with Steam, GOG and Epic Games releases in English that aren't rated as AO (adults only) (and the last one is a requirement, otherwise the game entry or links will be removed).

At the moment of writing, from ~46k entries, only 318 are tagged as visual novel in that wiki and probably other ~200 not tagged correctly.

The good parts are:
- It's a wiki, so if any user have some information about a visual novel, they can edit/add information over there (not that someone from here would be doing that anyway).
- They have a template used to link games to this website.
- PC Gaming Wiki is a Property in Wikidata.

Edit: I would love to see visual novels with a link to a website that have technical information about them (currently we don't have any of that), but I'm not sure if it's good to have a link that would be useful for less than 600 entries. I guess it will fall under Yorhel decision if he wants to grab the link from Wikidata for a small amount of VNs.Last modified on 2021-11-20 at 12:51
#1077 by Yorhel
2021-11-17 at 09:10
< report >
I guess it will fall under Yorhel decision if he wants to grab the link from Wikidata for a small amount of VNs.
Apparently I was already grabbing PCGamingWiki links from Wikidata, they just weren't being displayed yet. Fixed that now.
#1078 by c2k
2021-11-17 at 14:38
< report >This needs a tagging notification feature in the discussion since you can't notice whenever someone is replying to your statement and it hard to let them know they've replied to your discussion statement.
#1079 by drup-up
2021-11-18 at 10:02
< report >How about adding the sort by length function as we can estimate it more precisely now?
#1080 by sonic
2021-11-20 at 18:37
< report >Whenever you click on a voice actor it'd be nice to have additional column after the one with the name of the character they voice. That additional column would've specified if it's a "Main" type of character or Side character.Last modified on 2021-11-20 at 18:37
#1081 by Ileca
2021-11-23 at 05:01
< report >Please add an option to freeware/commercial. Something along the line of "restrict progression with the help of advertising, in-game currency or meaningless grinding". Being stuck with mobages, vndb is absolutely useless in warning me if a game will force me to watch advertisings or block my road with tickets or jewels. This is really frustrating. Also, if one of those games ask money for extra stories, do we agree that the game is commercial? You can't play the whole game without paying, though you can finish the main story.Last modified on 2021-11-23 at 07:42
#1082 by Mutsuki
2021-11-23 at 14:13
< report >might not be the right place to ask this (i ask here because it's related to the above suggestion), but what about mobile games which offer, say, the common route/main route for free and then charge you for the rest of the routes? should there be two sets of entries for this (one partial freeware release, then all the paid patches)? i feel like the current way of doing it for r39937 and r60780 is disingenous because it suggests the whole thing is paid when it's not all paid.

i feel like the above suggestion would help alleviate this as well.Last modified on 2021-11-23 at 14:14
#1083 by Ezezin
2021-11-24 at 07:22
< report >I know it was already requested before and it's on the to-do list (you can read this as a reminder complain), but could it be possible to ignore special characters and single letters words when searching for tags and traits while editing an entry?

Sometimes I know that a tag/trait I want to add exists, but it won't show up because I forgot to add a letter or a "-" when writing. Other times i had to look at the tag itself to remember how it was named or copy-paste the corresponding id.

This will also have the added benefit of reduce the amount of aliases in tags/traits in which the only difference between terms is a "-" less or a blank space.
#1084 by Ileca
2021-11-24 at 08:27
< report >@Mutsuki: I disagree, what you are describing is a different case altogether. Me, you can read the whole story without paying money but you are forced to sacrifice your time instead or have to wait to unlock the rest.
You, you can't access the whole, which is what is disingenuous and is righty marked as commercial.
It's even different from what I described at the end of my post with only extra content asking for money.
Maybe we can have more options like checkboxes to describes what exactly those scams are about?
#1085 by Yorhel
2021-11-24 at 09:05
< report >
I know it was already requested before and it's on the to-do list
Thanks for bringing up t950.913, I was working on improving the search last week and remember rampaa had made a post about it... which I lost. >.>

Let's see how much I did implement.

Done.

2) Tag/Trait search probably should ignore hyphens
Ah, I had been focussing on VN/release/producer/staff/character search. I'll apply the same search algorithm to tags & traits, that should fix it.

3) The results I get from, say, link don't make any sense to me.
Heh, search is hard. Because spaces in romanization are such a mess, the current algorithm will merge pretty much all words and match on substrings. c12431 is especially fun, with "Bluette Nicolette Planquette". No clue how to fix this without degrading results for other searches.

4) Currently, searching for, say, One will match with every string that contains one in it, such as Abandoner. I feel like this may not always be desirable. If searching for "One" (with quotation marks around it) would match strings where One is really a separate word, that would be really great.
Oof, possible but challenging. Can be done, but what do I even use for word boundary?

5) Would asking for regex support be too much?
Yes :D


As for the scamware solutions: I have nothing against adding more options to releases if there's a good proposal and if this doesn't differ too much on a per-shop basis, but let's start with the basics: make sure this information is in the notes field, as it's super relevant anyhow.
#1086 by Ezezin
2021-11-24 at 09:18
< report >@Eacil Will this short discussion from 2017 help?
As a side note, I was following that advise when dealing with mobile/freemium stuff:
So, even if the freemium option won't be created, I think I explained why I think it should definitely be non-free (with a note, right).
Last modified on 2021-11-24 at 09:20
#1087 by Ileca
2021-11-24 at 23:39
< report >You scared me because I started talking about splitting releases but in the end I agree with little me from 2017.
Quick and dirty proposal:

Commercial
>full (default)
>parts or uncut content require money to be unlocked (freemium)

Scamware (is free but...)
*includes not-in-menus ads
>game can be finished in one sitting without paying but watching ads or obtaining currency that can be acquired against real money might be required to progress
>game cannot be finished in one sitting without paying

Freeware

I am a mobage noob so I would like the opinion of mobage veterans.
Edit: the problem I see is that you can have non free extra stories *and* scamware system both at the same time.

My second proposal is then:

Commercial
Commercial (free demo included)
Freemium
Freeware

*includes not-in-menus ads

>game can be finished in one sitting without paying but watching ads or obtaining currency that can be acquired against real money might be required to progress
>game cannot be finished in one sitting without paying

This last block can be used on freemium and freeware and describe further mechanisms.

Checking one of those mechanisms (not-in-menus ads included) will append "with conditions" to the type e.g. freeware with conditions.

Freemium should be define as a game that allow a complete experience (has a beginning and an end) but hide extra or uncut content behind a paywall.Last modified on 2021-11-25 at 00:25
#1088 by trickzzter
2021-11-25 at 07:09
< report >It's not just about mobile games, there are quite a lot of web-VNs, that are basically "free", but have pay-walled content. r54308 for example. And there are tons of them.
#1089 by Ezezin
2021-11-25 at 07:30
< report >
Commercial (free demo included)
I don't think this is needed, we can already choose different releases types for products with more than 1 visual novel. (Remember t8242.846?)

Added some terms to your definitions:
[x] Premium currency (also called "Free 2 play" by the mobile community) >game can be finished in one sitting without paying but watching ads or obtaining currency that can be acquired against real money might be required to progress.
[x] Free to start (term used by the mobile community and more recently, Nintendo. It lacks an appropriate business term, but I think this should work.) >game cannot be finished in one sitting without paying.

This last block can be used on freemium and freeware and describe further mechanisms.
I must disagree on this one, if a free game has any of those scams it's not free anymore, it will become freemium. That block should only appear when selecting freemium.
This will also solve the problem presented by trickzzter about websites having this business model.Last modified on 2021-11-25 at 08:03
#1090 by Ileca
2021-11-25 at 08:06
< report >What problem does Trickzzter raise? Paywalled content is either commercial or freemium. It fits the model.
Also, freemium doesn't apply to pseudo freewares with impediments.
a way of charging for a product or service in which the basic product or service is free, but the customer pays for extra features
Freemium means free base product + non free extra features. A VN with only a free common route is not a freemium, it's a commercial product with a trial.
I too doesn't like the sound of "freeware with conditions" given the insane pricing I find but you are welcome to find better terms. I doubt Yorhel will accept "scam" tho.
What about prepending with "pseudo-"?

I don't think this is needed, we can already choose different releases types for products with more than 1 visual novel. (Remember t8242.846?)
I tried and you can't link the same VN twice to a single release, so unless you mean implementing that, it's not currently possible.

Can't find anything about "free to start". As for "free 2 play" is a bullshit term and part of the scam if you ask me.
Are you *adding* options? I thought about making the proposal more granular given that the experience can radically change based on the system but it might be too much.
#1091 by Ezezin
2021-11-25 at 08:27
< report >
I thought about making the proposal more granular given that the experience can radically change based on the system but it might be too much.
I'm so confused, I though you were the one trying to add options with those definitions. But you are right, there could be lots of different systems to pay-wall content.

I tried and you can't link the same VN twice to a single release, so unless you mean implementing that, it's not currently possible.
Ohh, nvm then.

Edit: Yeah, your second proposal looks fine. Now that you explained some points, It seems that I was the one who didn't understood what you were trying to say.Last modified on 2021-11-25 at 08:33
#1092 by Ileca
2021-11-25 at 13:27
< report >I am not too confident when it comes to cover all types of mechanism. That's why my proposal answers this simple but fundamental question: can you play the game in one sitting without paying?
Beyond that, I only know of advertising and grinding as roadblocks to progress.
Maybe the choices can be:
*time
*watching ads
*grinding
To answer the question "what factor is limiting progress and can be removed with the help of money in the cases of time and grinding". As watching ads might be the way the app is monetized (I know one like that, with no money involved).

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