Is this VN Kusoge now?

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#26 by loctar87
2017-09-12 at 00:44
Reached chapter 3, but I'm putting it on hold at least for a week or two. It's heavy, and there's only so many "It was all in your head" routines I can take at once, and it seems like there's probably a hundred more of them to come. It's like being dropped in the middle a showing of the Inception movie without being told anything. I have guesses at what's going on, but it seems they're probably going to spend the next 10 or 20 hours dancing around the truth and I'm tired of it.

Edit: Maybe I'll just watch Lucky Star instead, since it seemingly has the same characters.Last modified on 2017-09-12 at 00:48
#27 by infernoplex
2017-09-12 at 02:23
Having read further now (I am at the 5th chapter), my impression of the VN is getting weaker and weaker ... I don't know what's the ultimate revelation (well, maybe I know a little bit but not all of it), but I am finding more and more stuff that I don't think were executed very well and I am at a point where I can safely say that I believe this VN was perhaps really overrated ...

Though that's just my opinion, maybe I am one of those rare %1 who found it not as amazing as the rest of the community finds it. Not a bad VN but definitively not something I'd consider a "kamige" by any stretch of imagination. I had much much more fun with Dies irae compared to this VN.
#28 by silentrzk
2017-09-12 at 07:09
Despite I rate this a 9.4, I can definitely tell that this game is overrated. Heck, I never read Rabbit Hole 1 because of extreme yuri crap and Kagami is destroying my brain on how god-awful annoying she is. Even if you say this isn't for everyone, there are a lot of problems on the story. Too many plot-holes and like someone said, there are more bad things than good things. Rabbit Hole 2 being boring as Minakami Yuki being highly praised heroine although she's two-dimensional character that I got bored of her so fast plus she totally never changed until the end DESPITE SHE HAS MANY VERSIONS and being Mary Sue(Woah I guess this is the main reason why many people like her) just makes her more boring, the so-call self-proclaimed "realistic" bullying on Looking Glass Insects although its alternative ending is more realistic to me than that unrealistic original, Ayana being just an info-dump character for the reader and has no real contribution to the story except mind-fucking the other characters such as Yuki and Takuji.

But I still rate it a high score, maybe you can call it a guilty pleasure since the fact that I really and totally love Kimika(Heck, she's the savior on this game to me) as she's way way better than Yuki and Takuji is really fun to watch. The game isn't really kusoge but yes it's way overhyped and overrated. It's still a very enjoyable game.

Even I read this before this ruckus kamige/kusoge debate, my opinion stands still. In fact, I played Subarashiki Hibi not because of the hype(I'm a type of person who doesn't give shit about hype of a certain medium) but because of, ironically, Minakami Yuki since she's attractive when I found her on Google. She's displayed as an amazing character at the beginning of the game but as story slowly progressed, I kinda feel I just betrayed that actually she's two-dimensional and a bullcrap yuri-style Mary Sue.Last modified on 2017-09-12 at 07:35
#29 by fuukanou
2017-09-12 at 16:08
Bit of a legit question, do basically all Japanese kids read the Night on the Galactic Railroad book, because as far as I can tell it's about as common in Japanese media as Alice in Wonderland references in English media?
#30 by asaki
2017-09-14 at 04:23
@infernoplex - I think the big reveal was Takuji's mom was like Zakuro in the past, and got conned as well lol, but yeah if you already at Chapter 5 you already knew what's the biggest twist that Subahibi offer.

@silentrzk - Quite ironic that you found Yuki was not the people you like the most there lol. But I think it's make sense though that Yuki couldn't develop here considering that she was just a personality that created by Tomosane who is the true MC of Subahibi, and the real Yuki was already dead so it make sense that you couldn't develop a dead character in the first place lol. And also Yuki herself was created by Tomosane whose view Yuki as perfect people, in which it would be understandable if Tomosane himself was in need of perfect older sister figure considering his circumstance which was quite messed up to say the least. Although if you want to think Yuki as a Mary Sue, then be my guest there because after all people could had different opinion in regard of this.
#31 by sousai
2017-09-14 at 10:18
looking back at it subahibi might actually be overrated even...
the only great chapter is its my own invention, down the rabbit hole and jabberwocky 1 2 are kinda okay but the rest were pure crap.
without mamiya takuji this game would become kusoge indeed
#32 by infernoplex
2017-09-14 at 22:30
Finished it now... There are plotholes and events as well as twists that weren't convincing enough but overall, it was a good VN, certainly found my share of fun with it. Though did I find it to be a "kamige"? Nope, not at all, there are VNs that delivered SubaHibi's message more convincingly. Also, it seems the best parts of the VN are in the beginning and at the very last chapter, other chapters were weaker. Also, one of the main characters should have had its own chapter (specifically Kimika, since I never saw the explanation on some of the events with her, that would have cleared some of the plotholes).

I rate this 8/10, certainly some very good ideas but not executed flawlessly as I had hoped it would be. Maybe the VN gives a much better impression if you are into philosophy and have background knowledge on Wittgenstein, Cyrano de Bergerac and others ... but quite frankly, I am not too fond of fiction that requres too much external knowledge.
#33 by ghostsoul
2017-09-14 at 23:33
I'm starting to think that this amount of brutality/obscenity is doing nothing good for this game.
Btw, i disliked mamiya takuji. He is somewhat... disgusting (i wanted to write it without "somewhat" part, yes, thats how i feel it). I'm not justifying those who bullied him. I think that they deserved each other.
Overall impression of ch.3 - meh. Just boring. Yes, i decided to reread it thoughtfully. Without skipping.Last modified on 2017-09-14 at 23:33
#34 by infernoplex
2017-09-14 at 23:36
#33 - Prepare for more bullying, because chapter 4 is bullying taken to a higher level.
#35 by ghostsoul
2017-09-14 at 23:40
#34 - thank you. I think i know what to expect in ch. 4.
drugged Takashima Zakuro and stuff, yes?
Btw, i dont think that this "stuff" should be called bulling, to me it's more like abuse.Last modified on 2017-09-14 at 23:43
#36 by infernoplex
2017-09-14 at 23:43
Yes, but only in one variant of that route... ... But after you are done with that chapter, others will be easier to read through, that one was the most painful for me to read.
#37 by ghostsoul
2017-09-14 at 23:56
#36 - torture scene was painful too. For me most normal characters in this story are Yuki, Tsukasa and Kagami. I'm rooting for this trio. And yes, i know, that they are all just "delusions". It's sad.
#38 by infernoplex
2017-09-15 at 00:37
#37 - Regarding chapter 3 spoilers - The torture scene wasn't that painful to me cause I knew already from an earlier chapter that that wasn't Kagami. But if I hadn't knew it earlier, I'd be sadened by the development ... Actually, that scene has a deeper meaning than it looks like and you already might know what is the real meaning behind it so I think it was an okay scene actually, once you start examining it on a deeper level.

Also, regarding last sentence - Yes, sad indeed, once you read through the other chapters, you'll understand those parts better but I think that particular twist wasn't that amazing or at least not amazingly executed.
#39 by ghostsoul
2017-09-15 at 22:01
I want to say, that i really can't stand "mamiya takuji". He's the worst. I'm starting to hate him. It's just my impression and i cannot change it. -__-
I'm talking about this separate existence.
Btw is it just me or is his transformation in a "savior" really weak/rushed? I'm talking about explanation of this sudden change.
Last modified on 2017-09-15 at 22:09
#40 by infernoplex
2017-09-15 at 22:51
#39 - Regarding spoiler question - Mamiya Takuji's transformation into a "savior" didn't feel weak nor rushed to me and you'll get even a better case for it once you have read later chapters. Though you should have already figured it out in the chapter "It's My Invention" that it was his mother that pushed that "savior" part into his head. You already know that his mother was into occult and you already know about White Lotus sect. Later on, you'll see more about the matter. I didn't find it weak nor rushed. But some other things in the VN did feel weak and rushed but that's for other spoilers, not regarding this matter. I think you'll understand it better once you have read last 3 chapters in the VN (especially the last one).
#41 by ghostsoul
2017-09-17 at 03:37
Why takuji can't just painfully die? My wish was that he was slowly cut to pieces by Tomosane. I'm so disappointed. -.- Yea, i hate him.
...Why this game hate me so much... -.-

You may ask me, why i'm still on ch.3? Because i really can't stand mamiya takuji. And everytime i want to skip parts of it.
P.S. I'm sorry for the rant.

upd. I have finished it now. And i didn't understand anything. -.-Last modified on 2017-09-17 at 05:45
#42 by infernoplex
2017-09-17 at 13:45
#41 - To not understand anything is pretty normal stuff in this VN. Even when you finish all chapters, there are things that I never saw any answers or explanations for so be prepared to be left puzzled by some events even after you have finished reading it. That being said, I think SubaHibi isn't one of those VNs that will be liked by everybody equally. I can understand people who praised it but I am not so sure that it is a VN that can be considered "the best of the best".
#43 by fuukanou
2017-09-17 at 13:53
#42, perhaps the game was so polarising that only people who knew they'd be fans of it bothered to read before it came out, hence the ludicrously high scoreLast modified on 2017-09-17 at 13:54
#44 by infernoplex
2017-09-17 at 14:05
#43 - Yes, indeed. It does have a ludicrously high score (if I am not mistaken, it's ranked somewhere close to the top by VNDB's score or popularity rating) and even on EGS I think it used to be (if not still) ranked highly as well. That being said, while I don't think of it as a "kamige", I still believe it's one of the most unique VNs I had read so far.
#45 by sakurakoi
2017-09-17 at 15:17
perhaps the game was so polarising that only people who knew they'd be fans of it bothered to read before it came out, hence the ludicrously high score
QFT and hence why ratings are close to meaningless gambles.

Even I ain't some Unmensch who rates a VN poorly even though I did not read them but got enough information through threads like these here to tell that this was never a "kamige" to begin with and more closely to a "niche kusoge" (objectively terribly written to get any serious drama or philosophy across but still entertaining for some many, it is apparent how many do not care to not have understood anything).

Well, I rarely rate at all anyway, i.e only when I am confident that a work fully serves its apparent and intended purpose... hence why I only got a "simple" ultra-animated futa Nukige, an also sometimes animated yuri-harem-comedy and a Meister for in itself solid and flawless stories and expected but diverse JRPG grinding as 10/10, will play again and again (later). Minami-ke is also the only anime I watched more than twice and yet this one nearly 5 times (one time I did not watch the last half of the 4th season), simple comedy, still awesome.

Slice of Life Comedy is my kind of mindless fun, or is it just mindless, should one not expect too much/anything? While subtle, it is still fairly obvious how highly the sisters value a normal happy life... and not seeking some paradise or whatever (not quite sure if that's actually a topic in Subahibi since after all I did not read it but that's one common goal that "madness" seeks and as such works entailing "madness" entail as well).

Otherwise, flawless and more massive drama is otherwise rather impossible to find... heck, even though I love the original Grisaia trilogy, one route in it was awful, but I still do not rate it a 9/10. To begin with, it is very subjective how much comedy one will read through before becoming bored, wanting to finally get to the drama (if it was not for the fact that Nakige would be terribly written by design, otherwise they would be indistinguishable from any other comedy->drama hybrid, of which there are plenty, I would actually quite enjoy them because I may have the patience indeed).
#46 by ghostsoul
2017-09-17 at 20:09
Well, I will continue reading it. There is no point in dropping it now. I have an interest in Zakuro's story/later chapters.
Overall impression of ch.3 - so much senseless violence/obscenity... I understand overall idea (brutality of humans), but ... meh.
#47 by infernoplex
2017-09-17 at 21:40
I see many people "meh"-ing over the first part of SubaHibi yet I feel like I am the only one that actually liked the first 3 chapters of SubaHibi the most xD Aside from the last chapter and the epilogue endings, I feel like all other chapters were "meh". But maybe that's just because I found mystery in SubaHibi to not be its strongest point so when it starts revealing stuff, I think in myself like "not amazing at all, I was expecting something better".
#48 by ghostsoul
2017-09-17 at 22:19
#47 - i think that first and second chapters were better that the third. I think that they were actually good.
There was some interesting information/scenes (to small for me, if compaired with "brutality") in the third, but... overall... it's my personal issue.Last modified on 2017-09-17 at 22:26
#49 by infernoplex
2017-09-17 at 22:53
#48 - Yes, I know what you mean, the stuff from third chapter isn't meant for everybody. That's just the different kind of background we are coming from. Some people are repulsed by such stuff but people like me who are enjoying VNs like euphoria don't mind such scenes in VNs at all.

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