#1 by eywu
2024-04-01 at 09:10 | < report >"The VN is so centered around romance that it hurts the plot to a degree."
..What? Isn't the whole point of the game centered about the concept of love persisting through dimensions and timelines? I mean, for heaven's sake, the game has "luv" in the title. If it weren't centered about that, what should it apply itself as? Another generic war drama?
I don't understand this criticism. I don't really agree with most of your points, but those could be construed as just a difference of preferences, but the critique on the main underaching narrative being related to romance is wild to me. |
#2 by cheekyman07
2024-04-01 at 16:19 | < report >While I consider Alternative pretty much one of the greats, I don't agree with either of you on the game being centered around romance. To me, the romance was second to the main storytelling. I wanted there to be more of it, to be honest.
The stronger themes in my opinion are character studies that portray the grim aspects of what people have to do and go through when at war. The consequences that come during and after. Camaraderie, bonds, and self-sacrifice. Less out of choice, more out of necessity. My opinion is that a lot of the emotions and actions portrayed in this game that stem from these themes are lost on some readers due to the heavy exposition requiring a certain level of tolerance which, I will admit, is not for everyone despite me enjoying it.Last modified on 2024-04-01 at 16:21 |
#3 by silapse
2024-04-01 at 18:41 | < report >shit take fr fr |
#4 by itsnooa
2024-04-06 at 21:29 | < report >Maybe I didn't phrase this review very well, the char limit definitely doesn't help. By now it's been over two years since I finished these, so my memories are a bit cloudt. However I think you could boil down the offerings of the Muv Luv trilogy to i. SOL fluff / romance with the female cast, ii. scifi concepts / action against aliens and iii. character development when it comes to the MC (Mostly relevant in Alternative).
i. No matter how you cut it, the characters are very trope heavy and quite shallow for the vast majority of the trilogy. I'm someone who dabbles in just about any popular mediums and there are tons of characters I get invested to. Extra and Unlimited didn't accoplish that at all and with Alternative it was too little too late imo. As such I didn't really get much out of these sections and they still took the bulk of the readtime. It's also clear that the intention of the writers is for you to fall for the girls, if nothing else, the ending should make that very clear.
ii. This was a mixed bag. Some of the concepts explored were really cool, but at the same time action just doesn't hold a candle against other mediums and there were lots of infodumps and I honestly can't recall a single thing about them anymore.
iii. Nonexistent in the first two titles, but admittably was great thoughout Alternative, in large part complimenting the scifi elements mentioned above. Doesn't quite elevate this to a good visual novel, but thanks to that I don't regret the timeinvestment & money spent on this.
I can definitely see why this had the charm on folks who are used to moege, but I personally value things somewhat differently from the average VN reader and just couldn't find many things to enjoy. Imo Muramasa was leagues above this thanks to the less tropey cast and more interesting world in general.Last modified on 2024-04-06 at 21:30 |
#5 by cheekyman07
2024-04-07 at 08:44 | < report >Fair points, to be honest, I see what you mean with the characters thinking back. Though I do think comparing other mediums is a little unfair since there will always be inherent advantages in other mediums compared to vn's as a whole so that could be applied as a kind of blanket statement for vn's.
The comparison to Muramasa is interesting, I can certainly see the creative difference there in terms of uniqueness. Though I don't remember enough specifics either. |
#6 by itsnooa
2024-04-07 at 17:43 | < report >Yeah, the medium thing was mostly about action, which very often gets stale in visual novels. It's clear that the devs threw a lot of resources into those sequences in this title, but none of that really elevated the experience in any meaningful way. Really the works of Ittetsu (Hanachirasu, Muramasa) have been the only VNs with truly compelling action imo, mostly thanks to his vast knowledge about swordmanship and whatnot.
Tropes are a plague within all modern Japanese anime, but most story heavy VNs still give the cast some depth / develoment, whereas this trilogy only did that here in the final entry. If we had gotten more of that sooner, I probably would've had a much better time with this. |
#7 by cheekyman07
2024-04-07 at 21:35 | < report >Well from my past readings, I can name some that stood out to me as good or memorable with action or at least scene atmosphere.
When it comes to action the coolest scenes I remember were from Tokyo Necro. Mainly from a 'trying different things' perspective. They played around with fast-paced movements and 3D which was fun though limited in detail. It could be a bit hit-and-miss and had that experimental sort of feeling. It may not be up there with the rest, but I can respect it for trying those things.
Then when it comes to pure entertainment value Dies Irae was fantastic, banger music tracks and great back-and-forth between characters. It could get a bit ridiculous and over the top, but that was part of its charm for me. Just pure fun to read.
Then of course Muramasa to me was extremely good at setting the atmosphere with its narrative and suspense. The irony is the best scene in the game for me did not have much action at all, it was just two people facing eachother with weapons at the ready. They managed to make a scene where only one exchange happens at the end my favorite scene.
Gotta mention Fate/Stay Night too, it does not do anything special and yeah it's pretty dated by now but the music and fights are pretty memorable to me to the point where if I hear certain tracks I can remember most of the scenes that came with it.
Thinking back to Muv-Luv's action, I agree that it did not excel in most of the former mentioned areas. I think its strengths lay more in its depictions of chaos and the danger of combat, making the stakes feel high and the outcomes uncertain. I also liked a lot of the small things like the inside mech displays, comm displays, maps and other tidbits. Other than that, kind of veering from the action scenes I liked the small things they did, like the tense car drive with Yuuka is a scene that stays in my mind whenever I think about this game. If I needed to point out one major criticism of Muv-Luv is sometimes they would drag scenes or story phases for too long, of considerable note the 'final mission' was a bit of a fumble from them in terms of pacing imo. That was probably the one time I wondered to myself if they had started running out of ideas, it felt that way, I was expecting more.Last modified on 2024-04-07 at 21:59 |
#8 by silapse
2024-04-09 at 14:10 | < report >bro doesn't like moege and action if its not swordmanship. -> has shit take on moege and some of the most polished VN mecha action.
bro can't even remember causality infodumps. -> has shit take on infodumps which is a major part of unlimited and alternative.
bro what are you doing? if you don't like moege, mecha, and can't seem to remember infodumps and getting to know the characters beyond their tropes then you ain't even trying. just stick with shorter, simpler vns and you'll get more enjoyment instead on shitting on kamiges.Last modified on 2024-04-09 at 14:11 |
#9 by itsnooa
2024-04-09 at 17:00 | < report >Gotta love people who take differing opinions on subjective matters as personal attacks 👍 |
#10 by silapse
2024-04-10 at 15:13 | < report >it ain't personal. tbf its pretty honest advice to tell ppl to stick to what they know they like instead of playing stuff they know they won't like. you'll have more enjoyment that that way. |
#11 by cheekyman07
2024-04-10 at 16:33 | < report >#10
Look, I don't agree with the op's judgement on the game either. I gave this game a rating of 10 myself. But berating them for it is not going to change their mind or convince them.
Do you honestly think anyone is going to take that 'advice' seriously? 'bro' at the start of each sentence, and a Chuuni prose. You are fooling yourself if you believe that was helpful.
Making basic platitudes about the game is not enough, elaborate and tell us why you have those opinions so that people can see it from your perspective. If you are as honest as you claim to be with advice, you can most certainly do that.
As for that last reply, that's gatekeeping. Nobody should be telling others what they should or should not read or what they should enjoy. You are not them.
Disagree with the opinions and explain why by talking about the game not the user. Simple.Last modified on 2024-04-10 at 16:39 |